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Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

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Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#41

Post by userbinator »

sokoloff wrote: post #30
tmptmp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>And the failure mode either sounds dramatic (like a jet engine coming apart in the spin cycle) and/or the machine starts putting brown grease onto the clothes, making people believe the problem is not a simple one. Great insight. I wonder how far we (as in general society) have come from the science/technology aspects of our day to day life. Even repairing simple machines like a washing machine is almost beyond the…

The availability of tools is far from a given as well. It appalls me how few people will tackle what seem to me to be utterly basic repair tasks. I may be on the extreme end, but I think some people would pay someone to change a lightbulb in their house (and I'm sure a great many DO pay someone to replace a headlamp or tail light bulbs). I'm trying to do my part, ensuring that my kids are exposed to the DIY/maker/hac…

What really appalls me is that in some parts of the world, it is likely there are people who would seriously be scared upon seeing something like that, with thoughts of "is that a bomb?"

On the other hand, you can still find pockets of the DIY ethic in many places. A while ago I remember watching on YouTube an automatic transmission being rebuilt, and two rather young (around 8-10) kids were helping their father with it. That was cute and inspiring.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#42

Post by userbinator »

sokoloff wrote: post #21
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I started trying to cut it open, but it soon became clear I would never be able to put it back together and have it 100% watertight . Which is kind of a hard requirement in this case.

If the channel for the rubber gasket is still there, you could. The old way was a rubber gasket (think "gigantic O-ring") and screws. The new model's plastic welding obviated the need for the gasket, but I bet the provision is still there if the screw bosses are still there. Also, if you're tackling this repair, it's wise to make sure you can get the old bearings off the "spider" and that the spider isn't cracked fro…

Silicone sealant, the "universal gasket", should also work to seal the joint, as the tub is not under high pressure.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#43

Post by jamesblonde »

jokoon wrote: post #4

I fail to understand why Scandinavian politics always manage to make sense. Is that cultural, historical, economical, or does the tough climate force people to think a little bit more about how they manage their society?

It's from the 1920s when the social democrats convinced the working person to ditch religion for a more 'rational' form of politics. Despite the other negative comments (nobody thinks their govt is doing good), politicans are held to account and policy is primarily driven by rational debate. For example, there was a strong rumour that a recent prime minister (Goran Persson) was religious. Being religious would obviously be a bad thing, as it might bias his policy - that is the consensus. And yes, it is a more consensus driven society. But without some level of consensus, how can you get your fellow citizens to help one another?

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#44

Post by dijit »

sheraz wrote: post #39
jokoon wrote: post #4

I fail to understand why Scandinavian politics always manage to make sense. Is that cultural, historical, economical, or does the tough climate force people to think a little bit more about how they manage their society?

I see why you and many others living outside of the region would think that. Sweden is very good at only extolling her perceived "virtues" and sweeping the rest under the rug. Waaaay under the rug. There is a real moral and intellectual superiority among many Swedes that I find deeply distasteful. From environment to politics to how to bag your groceries, and yes--even close a door properly, the "Swedish way" is alwa…

Out of curiosity where do you live? Perhaps this is a regional thing but down here in Skane people are very humble about being Swedish, almost as if they are ashamed of some sort of history.

They certainly wouldn't describe something as "the Swedish way" unless it was something about how the police are ineffective due to bureaucracy or something similar.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#45

Post by aembleton »

berntb wrote: post #13
jokoon wrote: post #4

I fail to understand why Scandinavian politics always manage to make sense. Is that cultural, historical, economical, or does the tough climate force people to think a little bit more about how they manage their society?

You are just too far away. Swedish politics is as sick a joke as in Italy. - The school and high school results are in a state of implosion. No real political reaction. - Because of internal political manoeuvres, the immigration policies were done so it will cost multiple times of the defence spending the coming years -- and risk a Spanish style housing crash. - Putin acts more or less like Hitler in the mid 1930s. T…

You could be describing the UK.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#46

Post by pingec »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #5

What we really need is financial penalties on companies that make stuff deliberately hard to repair. Set up a department of the Consumer Rights Bureau (or whatever it's called) where people can report devices the've been unable to fix due to deliberate obfuscation/etc., and that forces manufacturers to refund the consumer the entire purchase sum of that device no matter how old it is. Anecdote: my washing machine rec…

I inherited a 35 years old washing machine, it is used about once a week. Every 10 years the bearing needs replacing and I had to replace the water pump one time. Still going strong...

That's about 20€ in spare parts every 10 years. The savings in electricity and water with a new machine are tiny compared to savings by not having to buy a new machine in the first place and then replace it every 5 years...

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#47

Post by aembleton »

gambiting wrote: post #28

The only problem with repairing devices is labour cost, nothing else. I've had a broken subwoofer that I took to a small electronics shop(in UK), and was quoted 60 pounds to even have it looked at. Not repaired - looked at. The subwoofer cost me 80 pounds on ebay. So predictably, it went straight to the bin. Same with washing machines, dryers, etc - I bought a Hotpoint washing machine for 220 pounds, but a standard c…

We could start sending items to Poland for repair.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#48

Post by berntb »

vidarh wrote: post #32
berntb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the definition. I also know that just the "hidden" cost not presented to people as "tax" is 31.42% of the salary. The tax rate in itself is generally around 30%. So something is rotten in Den.. Swedish data. :-) Anyway, it doesn't change my original argument really. I ignored lots of other costs per employee to sell repair time. Edit: It is probably that the lowest amount to pay taxes on have been raised a lot…

> (The numbers are too big with 31.42% added to the sum and 30% tax for that to result in 41%.) Salary is the original "100%" here, but the cost to the business is higher than that, and so if we are to talk about the cost to the business we need to adjust the percentages accordingly. 100% + 31.42% is the total expense to the business. So 30% of salary and 31.42% of salary = 61.42% of salary, but only 46.74% of the to…

Seems totally correct to me -- and is also what I had in the first "Edit:", except the details. :-)

The taxes were lowered substantially for ~ the first 18K SEK of monthly income by the previous government. (This boon for low income employees is denounced as a rightwing extreme design by the present lefty government, so it might be solved.)

I ignored the details since I didn't really need it for my argument to explain why the total costs make service industry almost impossible.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#49

Post by DanBC »

sametmax wrote: post #36
tmptmp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>And the failure mode either sounds dramatic (like a jet engine coming apart in the spin cycle) and/or the machine starts putting brown grease onto the clothes, making people believe the problem is not a simple one. Great insight. I wonder how far we (as in general society) have come from the science/technology aspects of our day to day life. Even repairing simple machines like a washing machine is almost beyond the…

I always has been. Even 30 years ago most people didn't know how to fix those machines. People fixing cars or plumbery have been popularized by TV and books, but really they were a minority, for the simple reason learning a skill takes time. And most people invest their time in only a limited set of things.

> Even 30 years ago most people didn't know how to fix those machines.

True, people would use washing machine repair shops. Today you can't do that because the machines have been designed to not be repairable. They come with sealed tubs. People can replace the tubs, but that's a lot more expensive than replacing just the bearings.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#50

Post by Shivetya »

Anyone can reuse old fully workable products in their every day life, it really is super easy and in many cases can be cheaper. While I do go occasionally go into thrift or antique stores, I also hit up garage sales, but my main source is ebay.

Besides the good feeling from putting something back into service that would other wise be junked there can be some serious nostalgia involved. Examples, I have a Toastmaster 1b16 fully automatic toaster like my grandparents had in the 50s, works perfect regardless how many slices pass through it. Old glass plates (morgantown, crinkle, etc) that we use every day for eating. Milk glass spice dispensers, salt & pepper, and old glass water containers in the fridge for ice tea. You can even buy old tupperware or ceramic and glass storage for the refrigerator. My favorite has to be a the vintage fans, a six bladed brass Emerson (blades look like ship propeller) is flawless in use and over a hundred years old.

About the only things I won't use are higher tech electronics, efficiency aside the older items may not even be usable because of software or serviceability

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