The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell • Hacker News Board

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#41

Post by rdtsc » Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 12:39 AM UTC

microcentury wrote: post #39

"At my salary level, and with my expected advancement path, I could comfortably retire in my thirties." I've heard this or statements like it in quite a few articles over the years, but I've never actually met a retired thirties business consultant. Do they exist and am I just missing them? The only ones I know are well into their thirties, working 70+ hours a week, and looking forward to making even larger boatloads…

That actually undermines his main point -- that he stuck to his "morals" and forgone the "large" hush money check at the end. If he was making enough to retire by his 30s then $16k wasn't that significant of an amount. That means the didn't really lose a lot so his "moral" stance is more symbolic, and not the tough financial decision that article might imply.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#42

Post by rdtsc » Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 12:41 AM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #26

"I wasn’t sure at the time, but having had enough free time of late to ponder such questions, I think I’ve come to the conclusion that having a father who can pay for a top-notch education outweighs the disadvantage of being raised by a hypocrite. Sticking with the job for the sake of a paycheck passes the children test." I wonder how many children get sent to college by dads like that.

> I wonder how many children get sent to college by dads like that.

Given the amazing human capacity to rationalize everything, I would guess -- a lot.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#43

Post by gvb » Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 12:44 AM UTC

microcentury wrote: post #39

"At my salary level, and with my expected advancement path, I could comfortably retire in my thirties." I've heard this or statements like it in quite a few articles over the years, but I've never actually met a retired thirties business consultant. Do they exist and am I just missing them? The only ones I know are well into their thirties, working 70+ hours a week, and looking forward to making even larger boatloads…

They think they will retire in their thirties, but they never have enough.

"At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel Catch 22 over its whole history. Heller responds, "Yes, but I have something he will never have...

Enough."

http://www.johnboglemedia.com/component/content/article/1-la...

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#44

Post by rdtsc » Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 12:49 AM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #19

bkrausz wrote: post #12

The tl;dr version: Large consulting companies often tell their clients what they want to hear, which more or less negates the point of consultants but can often pay better. There are ethical concerns here. I like the story, but the article itself has way too many metaphors that cloud the point. Or maybe I'm just too used to having all my stories condensed into 140 characters...

There was another important point: a guy new to the consulting business and with no significant amount of relevant training or support wound up being marketed as an expert and became the senior person on each project he joined. I've seen this in action, both from the client side (management brought in absurdly highly paid consultants to back up what they wanted when their own people wouldn't support it) and the other…

Consultants are often brought in order be blamed later. In the article, the development company could always try and blame BCG when their shareholders wonder how come $1B was wasted. By that time, the CEO of the development company would have left deploying his golden parachute, and BCG would have been able to somehow cover their legal ass with some small print on a back of their contract agreement.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#45

Post by rdtsc » Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 12:58 AM UTC

lobo-tuerto wrote: post #30

kolya3 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he meant that he got into the bathtub and then screamed underwater?

I also think this is the correct interpretation. Maybe he needed to scream out loud to bring a bit of relief to his abused up moral.

The problem is, his description of his morality crisis don't quite match with his actions.

He did quit, but it was probably because everyone else saw the ship sinking and was jumping off.

His $16k "sacrifice" at the end was not much if he claims he would have made enough to retire by 30s and just live off interest. So, yes, he had a bit some moral struggles, but it sounds like he managed to successfully "overcome" most of them via rationalizations.

The blog post was written just to make himself feel better and to somehow turn not taking a little bit of hush money into a great moral victory. Perhaps his future employee will read how honest and devoted to the truth he is...

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#46

Post by holdenc » Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 1:11 AM UTC

This story is written with a wonderful naivete. Consultants like BCG exist only to lend credentials and competent temporary labor. The companies who hire these consultants are looking for affirmation and peace of mind -- most of them too mired in bureaucracy or incompetence to draw even the most basic conclusions by themselves.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#47

Post by sketerpot » Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 1:23 AM UTC

sigstoat wrote: post #18

i have the feeling, children or not, that we wouldn't have been hearing this story if the $16,000 offer had been a bit larger.

As Calvin and Hobbes put it, the disturbing thing is not that everyone can be bought, but that the price is often so low.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#48

Post by ahk » Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 1:36 AM UTC

dantheman wrote: post #35

barrkel wrote: post #21

Something that leaped out at me: "I believe that voluntary exchange is not just a good method of incentivizing people to provide their labor and talents to society, but a robust moral system". Voluntary exchange is not a moral system. A free market doesn't have morals.

You are completely incorrect, the free market is a moral system because it does not rely on coercion or force to compel others to interact. All interactions in a free market system are voluntary and beneficial to all participants in the transaction. No other economic system can make those claims.

It can be beneficial to all "participants" but disastrous to society as a whole, can it not? Look at the current rage against free market instruments like CDOs and other complex unregulated derivatives.

Are you really claiming we dont need "coercion or force" from regulators like the SEC or FTC?

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#49

Post by caffeine » Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 1:40 AM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #26

"I wasn’t sure at the time, but having had enough free time of late to ponder such questions, I think I’ve come to the conclusion that having a father who can pay for a top-notch education outweighs the disadvantage of being raised by a hypocrite. Sticking with the job for the sake of a paycheck passes the children test." I wonder how many children get sent to college by dads like that.

I think it shows closed-mindedness on his part. They taught him analysis at MIT, but they didn't teach him to think properly.

You're a guy with a degree from the top technical school in the world and you've got one of the world's most prestigious consultancies on your resume: you don't think you could go on to find a job in which you could afford your kids' education AND not be a hypocrite?

I respect him for standing up after the fact and saying "I'm a wealthy hypocrite." But I don't respect him for going to work there in the first place. You'd have to have spent junior year of college buried in sand not to know it's a game, mostly dirty.

Re: The story BCG offered me $16,000 not to tell

#50

Post by abalashov » Mon, Apr 12, 2010, 1:46 AM UTC

holdenc wrote: post #46

This story is written with a wonderful naivete. Consultants like BCG exist only to lend credentials and competent temporary labor. The companies who hire these consultants are looking for affirmation and peace of mind -- most of them too mired in bureaucracy or incompetence to draw even the most basic conclusions by themselves.

Still, it's hard to believe that peace of mind is worth paying 5 kids graduated 6 weeks ago in Political Science from Stanford to come give Powerpoints on meaningless, vapid crapola billed to you each at $300/hr, even where such figures don't make much of a blip on the bottom line.