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Project Shield

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Re: Project Shield

#21

Post by nolok »

headmelted wrote: post #11
willvarfar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I follow your link https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/09/the-democratization-of-c... and I get this: 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable shield So it seems to be running shield, but at least part of the attacks are still getting through? :( Would be very nice to know what kind of attacks Shield doesn't shield against etc.

Completely down from here too. I may need to retract my comments about Akamai. Apparently 680gbps (or whatever it's at now) is the total amount of traffic the busiest site on the internet can be hosed with before the internet itself poops the bed. So, you know, we did learn something from this whole saga.

OVH got hit by a bigger than 1Tbps attack this week

Re: Project Shield

#23

Post by contingencies »

frozenport wrote: post #17

This is going to play into the hands of authoritarian regimes like China and Russia. They will simply block Google.

Couldn't agree more; no idea who is downvoting you, this is the most insightful comment here. Also, it's fucking hypocritical claiming to support 'net neutrality' while hand-picking sites to receive support of a massive private-fiber global conglomerate with very strong senior management political affiliations. Engineers with ethics at google should start a rebellion.

Re: Project Shield

#24

Post by jimmytidey »

Rather than seeking a technical solution, I wonder if there is a social one.

If Google promised to upweight DDOSed articles in their (news) rankings in perpetuity, that's a strong incentive not to DDOS. It also makes sense that material one person is spending resource trying to suppress is extremely likely to be interesting to others, so it's not necessarily a bad experience for someone using the Google news.

Obviously, in the short term it's also useful if they can link to a cached copy that is still working. A systemic Streisand effect.

Re: Project Shield

#26

Post by ztl8702 »

frozenport wrote: post #17

This is going to play into the hands of authoritarian regimes like China and Russia. They will simply block Google.

Indeed, China is probably the place that needs this kind of "shield" the most. But Google is already blocked there.

Ideally, we should use some kind of P2P network against censorship, but such networks aren't mature enough.

BUT, if you consider the other way: China's attack on western sites, then this "shield" is valuable.

I remember no long ago China uses GFW to inject malicious code in some analytics javascript. Then all of a sudden millions of internet users started ddosing Github. It was probably because someone put something Chinese gov didn't like on Github. Github for some reason is not banned in China , but China was using this kind of ddos to force Github to take down the pages it didn't like.

Re: Project Shield

#27

Post by Iv »

jimmytidey wrote: post #24

Rather than seeking a technical solution, I wonder if there is a social one. If Google promised to upweight DDOSed articles in their (news) rankings in perpetuity, that's a strong incentive not to DDOS. It also makes sense that material one person is spending resource trying to suppress is extremely likely to be interesting to others, so it's not necessarily a bad experience for someone using the Google news. Obvious…

> If Google promised to upweight DDOSed articles in their (news) rankings in perpetuity, that's a strong incentive not to DDOS.

That would actually be a strong incentive to DDOS yourself!

Re: Project Shield

#28

Post by enraged_camel »

Iv wrote: post #27
jimmytidey wrote: post #24

Rather than seeking a technical solution, I wonder if there is a social one. If Google promised to upweight DDOSed articles in their (news) rankings in perpetuity, that's a strong incentive not to DDOS. It also makes sense that material one person is spending resource trying to suppress is extremely likely to be interesting to others, so it's not necessarily a bad experience for someone using the Google news. Obvious…

> If Google promised to upweight DDOSed articles in their (news) rankings in perpetuity, that's a strong incentive not to DDOS. That would actually be a strong incentive to DDOS yourself!

Yeah, SEO "experts" would jump on that!

Re: Project Shield

#29

Post by allistar »

This isn't going to defend content that threatens the "national security", age of consent, and copyright laws of the States. So isn't it just a declaration that Google wants to be the imperialist content police of the internet, spun under a more benevolent-seeming light?

Re: Project Shield

#30

Post by jimmytidey »

Iv wrote: post #27
jimmytidey wrote: post #24

Rather than seeking a technical solution, I wonder if there is a social one. If Google promised to upweight DDOSed articles in their (news) rankings in perpetuity, that's a strong incentive not to DDOS. It also makes sense that material one person is spending resource trying to suppress is extremely likely to be interesting to others, so it's not necessarily a bad experience for someone using the Google news. Obvious…

> If Google promised to upweight DDOSed articles in their (news) rankings in perpetuity, that's a strong incentive not to DDOS. That would actually be a strong incentive to DDOS yourself!

That's true. Although institutions deal with that kind of moral hazard in insurance all the time, so perhaps similar mechanisms could be applied here.

Perhaps sites uprated for having been DDOSed could be marked as such. We already have to make many decisions about the trustworthiness of news sources, so maybe it's just another factor.

I can also see why Google would just like to make DDOSing very hard and make the whole problem go away, rather than the mechanism I'm proposing.

That said, I think there's something gratifying about using an attacker's willingness and ability to commit resource to removing information as a signal about the value of that information. Judo chop!

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