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Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

robert.ocallahan.org

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Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#151

Post by TwoBit »

emn13 wrote: post #140
moxie wrote: post #40

What always strikes me about these pleas is how familiar they sound. They're reminiscent of all the things we "should" -- eat better, exercise more, lower our carbon footprint -- and I suspect they all see just about the same level of long term success. Firefox did well when their only real competitor (MS) was actively trying to make their own browser bad in order to preserve the relevance of the desktop OS and their…

This is a misleading comparison. You imply that firefox is far behind chrome in terms of general quality. Although I use chrome a lot, I also use firefox daily. And the quality difference is essentially nil(1). In many relevant ways firefox was at times better; but the details shift from release to release. I certainly isn't true that typical users would run into huge problems by using firefox. 1: on a desktop. I als…

It's largely a problem of Web sites making mobile Web pages not follow the Standards but rather use browser specific code.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#152

Post by rubber_duck »

maftieu wrote: post #111
moxie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Google has market leverage. However, when IE was Firefox's competitor, MS was in just as powerful of a position, and Firefox was a success. They were a success because they clearly had the better browser. These days, that's no longer the case. I know that I certainly did not switch from Firefox because of Google's marketing efforts or underhanded tactics. But what if you're right? In a world where, I agree, it t…

I think people think Chrome is a best browser is because it performs better on Google products than any other browser. And as people are using GMail, Youtube or other, they see Chrome as the best browser.

Actually GMail and YouTube are the only tolerable experiences using FF.

Try watching random FB video, Twitch streams, etc. on a Linux FF and you'll get greeted with a nice "please download Adobe Flash" or some such nonsense.

With Chrome it just works, it bundles Flash, I don't have to care which version it is, how to get it for my system, etc.

I would like to use FF because the theme makes it match my Gnome theme (silly but it would make me switch browsers) but it just breaks on multimedia.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#153

Post by Razengan »

ookdatnog wrote: post #89
moxie wrote: post #40

What always strikes me about these pleas is how familiar they sound. They're reminiscent of all the things we "should" -- eat better, exercise more, lower our carbon footprint -- and I suspect they all see just about the same level of long term success. Firefox did well when their only real competitor (MS) was actively trying to make their own browser bad in order to preserve the relevance of the desktop OS and their…

The public at large will never be swayed to use less convenient alternatives for ethical reasons. But even so, if a small, dedicated group of people are convinced, they can keep the ethical alternative just alive enough that it remains a somewhat viable alternative. I don't think vegetarianism will ever be the norm, but there are enough vegetarians to create a market for vegetarian food. This creates options for peop…

> The public at large will never be swayed to use less convenient alternatives for ethical reasons.

There have been countless practices which were once the convenient norm but are now seen as archaic or barbaric, at least in some parts of the world;

Slavery, serfdom, monarchies, dowry, arranged marriage, virgin sacrifices, involuntary circumcision, blood feuds, war crimes, excessive pollution... I'm sure the transition period in each of those cases was anything but convenient, and in some places it's still nigh impossible to convince people to stop these practices.

I think it's not so much "swaying" the public at large but continuing to provide sufficient education to them, and the technology to ease the transition, then at some point the transition just happens on its own. Of course the inverse is also possible and people sometimes revert to old and worse practices.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#154

Post by qplex »

kleiba wrote: post #43
chopin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thousand times this. Ironically Firefox had this feature in the past ( I don't remember the exact version). My workaround is to start Firefox in anonymous mode always (Settings->Privacy->History->"Never remember history). But it's a workaround and I wish Firefox would be able to open links in an incognito window.

It's so interesting to see how workflows differ between different people. You say "a thousand times this", but I for one never have this issue because I never (have to) click on an external link to be opened in my browser.

I find it scary when a browser window appears from nowhere.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#155

Post by mpol »

wallace_f wrote: post #73
moxie wrote: post #40

What always strikes me about these pleas is how familiar they sound. They're reminiscent of all the things we "should" -- eat better, exercise more, lower our carbon footprint -- and I suspect they all see just about the same level of long term success. Firefox did well when their only real competitor (MS) was actively trying to make their own browser bad in order to preserve the relevance of the desktop OS and their…

>(MS) was actively trying to make their own browser bad Is this conspiracy or fact?

The fact is, after releasing IE6 around the year 2000, MS dissolved the IE team. Only around 2006 a new team was formed to create IE7 (which wasn't much better).

Conspiracy mixed with facts is... At the end of the nineties, Netscape was pushing to make the browser the platform, instead of the desktop. MS was quite worried about that, they had a monopoly on the desktop and used that to create a monopoly with their browser, so Netscape had no chance to do what they wanted. MS succeeded, as in delayed the process, it took maybe 15 years, after the death of Netscape and the rise of Google, to have Google and others make a platform out of the browser. Having the web stagnate and locked in to a browser like IE6 was for MS a desirable situation.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#156

Post by ajbetteridge »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #144
ookdatnog wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public at large will never be swayed to use less convenient alternatives for ethical reasons. But even so, if a small, dedicated group of people are convinced, they can keep the ethical alternative just alive enough that it remains a somewhat viable alternative. I don't think vegetarianism will ever be the norm, but there are enough vegetarians to create a market for vegetarian food. This creates options for peop…

Vegetarianism can be the norm, but for that to happen one of two things must happen: either the cost of meat has to be prohibitively expensive ("the stick") or vegetarian dishes have to be more appealing to the public at large ("the carrot"). Neither of those things have happened yet. For Firefox to gain market share, either the perceived "cost" of using Chrome has to skyrocket or Firefox has to be superior for a com…

"the carrot"

I see what you did there.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#157

Post by Veen »

maftieu wrote: post #111
moxie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Google has market leverage. However, when IE was Firefox's competitor, MS was in just as powerful of a position, and Firefox was a success. They were a success because they clearly had the better browser. These days, that's no longer the case. I know that I certainly did not switch from Firefox because of Google's marketing efforts or underhanded tactics. But what if you're right? In a world where, I agree, it t…

I think people think Chrome is a best browser is because it performs better on Google products than any other browser. And as people are using GMail, Youtube or other, they see Chrome as the best browser.

This is right for me at least. I spend a big chunk of my day in Google Docs. I'd rather use Safari or Firefox, but I just can't deal with the janky Google Docs performance in those browsers.

Although occasionally a Docs tab in Chrome will go crazy and gobble up RAM and max the CPU.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#158

Post by LaurentVB »

grokavi wrote: post #139
anilgulecha wrote: post #7

The only reason chromium is my primary browser is the developer tools (it's a pain to use Firefox for normal browsing, but Chromium for debugging.) I can only hope for chrome's devtools to be ported to firefox. (firebug is close but slow).

I use Chrome for developing and Firefox for normal browsing. That way, I know when I'm wasting my time ;-) Simply, I just couldn't switch to Chrome for normal browsing. One thing I couldn't do without is the bookmark tagging in FF. I also like the fact that the address bar behaves much more predictably, like when I type something and it shows me links only from my recent history. Youtube does play better in Chrome, F…

I do the same. But my rationale for normal browsing with firefox is not about tooling, it's really about what OP says in the article. Agreed on the adress bar though.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#159

Post by oolongCat »

I remember I used to be a huge fan of Firefox until a large sum of the plug-ins I had installed stopped working becuase the browser upgraded, this was several year ago and it was then I first decided to use chrome.

I used chrome for a long time, and I am now starting to slowly move back to firefox. One complain I now have about FF is it feels a bit sluggish compared to chrome when rendering web pages. The nightly build is however a lot better. (I am using ubuntu btw).

---------edit-----------------

Another thing I wish ff works on is screen real-estate.

http://imgur.com/OGWfgDo

Re: Choose Firefox Now, or Later You Won't Get a Choice (2014)

#160

Post by oAlbe »

aorth wrote: post #60
apatters wrote: post #35

This article convinced me personally to switch back to Firefox, but I'm disheartened by seeing a number of comments here which amount to "Firefox is fine," "Firefox is just as good," "The Foundation is fine," and so on. That attitude is a recipe for shrinking market share. FF is competing against extremely well funded, extremely aggressive and competent competitors. You don't get to stop listening to the market in an…

I maintain a copy of Firefox Developer Edition on my system and I make a concerted effort to open it every few days so it can update itself and so I can test any new sites or blog posts I'm working on. I've tried to switch back to Firefox cold turkey in the past and it never works for me, but I might introduce a personal policy of one week on, one week off, alternating between Firefox and Chrome.

> it never works for me

Why not? What are the factors that convinced you to stay with Chrome? (genuine questions)

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