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The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

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Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#221

Post by WhitneyLand »

jakub_g wrote: post #205
Latty wrote: post #3

People always talk about how SO is so terrible, and yet it's still the best resource by a mile. People have just forgotten that the lack of that carefully curated environment created the complete mess that was all the forums we used to have before. Sure, it's not ideal - SO could do better in terms of helping people understand the site's goals and enforcing the rules in a less hostile way, but they are working on tha…

Some advice from me to ease your experience on SO: 1. Earn some reputation first in order to see how stuff works from the other side. When you join a new company, you don't come the first day and tell everyone how they're doing it wrong before learning about the project, about the tradeoffs etc. Same here. Having rep above certain threshold gives you additional privileges (commenting, editing etc.). Also, when you ha…

I think you are missing the point somewhat by offering up tips and strategies.

For example having a question incorrectly closed as duplicate is one of the big problems, yet you only address it dismissively in a single sentence.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#222

Post by the8472 »

makecheck wrote: post #59

While StackOverflow is still an outstanding resource, they never really solved the “why bother?” problem for the really difficult subjects. Your choices are: answer a trivial JavaScript question and get a million points, or spend an hour painstakingly explaining a hard problem for maybe one point (where, half the time, the original submitter doesn’t even bother to “accept” your answer so you lose even that small poin…

have a counterexample: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11227809/why-is-it-faste...

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#223

Post by PretzelFisch »

EpicEng wrote: post #70
dandare wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No matter what choices we make there will be upset people. Sure, I have no idea what you have to deal with on a daily basis and in the end the content is mostly helpful so you are probably doing it right. But in more than few occasions I have been treated like a dirty beggar/shoplifter/moron/(you name it) for actually asking a question (or answering one)! Yes I need you and yes I owe you a lot - but I don't like yo…

And I'm sure you'll have the same experience elsewhere. Once a site like SO gets large enough to be really useful to a lot of people you're going to also have to deal with an influx of the type of users you don't like. I don't know how you solve that problem.

Not if you have to pay for an account and you put your real identity behind your questions and answers.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#224

Post by shagie »

mhomde wrote: post #20

I'm a bit divided about Stack Overflow. On one hand side it's simply one, if not the best, resource for programmers. On the other hand it's become somewhat toxic and counterproductive. The better you become as a programmer the less value you derive from it. The true niche experts are less and less to be found (ie Product/Project -owners and Microsoft/Google/Apple etc -employees) and the other replies will often be ex…

You may find A Group Is It's Own Worst Enemy an interesting read http://www.shirky.com/writings/herecomeseverybody/group_enem... - the things to design for and the things one must accept speak to some of your thoughts.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#225

Post by mhomde »

shagie wrote: post #224
mhomde wrote: post #20

I'm a bit divided about Stack Overflow. On one hand side it's simply one, if not the best, resource for programmers. On the other hand it's become somewhat toxic and counterproductive. The better you become as a programmer the less value you derive from it. The true niche experts are less and less to be found (ie Product/Project -owners and Microsoft/Google/Apple etc -employees) and the other replies will often be ex…

You may find A Group Is It's Own Worst Enemy an interesting read http://www.shirky.com/writings/herecomeseverybody/group_enem... - the things to design for and the things one must accept speak to some of your thoughts.

Ahh, Shirky is always good, thanks for the link

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#226

Post by the8472 »

exstudent2 wrote: post #219
the8472 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are real. The unwillingness or inability to do some basic research or mental flexibility to adjust generic guidelines to their particular case (maybe 1 step out of 5 needs to be skipped!) combined with their persistence makes them quite frustrating and an outsized time consumption. The guy who only needs a single link to the right tutorial is easy to deal with and makes all sides happy. The guy who asks a questi…

Even if this behavior is real, the term is condescending and I see a ton of speculation about the impact of this type of thing, zero data.

> the term is condescending

It perfectly encapsulates how those people are perceived. They drain the fun out of helping others. Playing language police is unlikely to gain you any more ears from people who feel drained by the vampires.

> ton of speculation about the impact of this type of thing, zero data.

Do you expect them to have a positive impact that would increase if moderation were decreased?

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#227

Post by speedkills »

grkvlt wrote: post #206
reitanqild wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People always talk about how SO is so terrible, and yet it's still the best resource by a mile. I can often stick with second best in class as long as it doesn't have a habit of biting you for no apparent reason all the time. > People have just forgotten that the lack of that carefully curated environment created the complete mess that was all the forums we used to have before. People keep saying that and I keep wo…

Well, before SO, you had sites like 'Expert Sex Change' (expertsexchange.com) which would purport to answer your question, but gray/blur out the actual text. They then required payment to expose the answers, which often turned out to be non-existent. On the other hand, I've had a lot of success with SO, both asking and answering, and while there are occasions where I find questions closed as duplicates or off-topic,…

I always remember scrolling down past the blurred out section and reading the actual answers without signing up. I wonder how many people ending up getting past that old school dark pattern.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#228

Post by WhitneyLand »

sklivvz1971 wrote: post #115
shkkmo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not impressed by this response to some very valid criticisms. > No matter what choices we make there will be upset people. Of course no matter what you do, people will complain. This doesn't this this a valid reason to dismiss criticism out of hand without engaging with the complaints. The correct response is to look for ways to address the very real problems that are being brought up in a way that increases the…

I am not dismissing anything, and I am, instead quite worried. I am sorry that you had the wrong impression. What I meant to say is that handling such a large site is like playing whack-a-mole. Seeing problems popping up is not a symptom of decline. Is a symptom of size.

I hope you're learning some lessons here. When addressing a group of your users who have concerns:

1) Never start out saying "What you don't understand is...". Instead try "Here are some of the challenges we face..."

2) Never say "Im sorry you had the wrong impression...". Instead try "I'm sorry if I miscommunicated..."

I know you are not the PR guy. And it's nice you are here because people do appreciate staff commenting.

Just trying to help you get a better reaction.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#229

Post by Safety1stClyde »

There is a problem with giving moderation powers to entrenched individuals who are not experts.

I've seen this on the English language stack exchange, the Japanese language stack exchange, the Physics stack exchange, and on stack overflow. The people who are there on the site gathering points and up and down voting aren't necessarily experts, and in many cases they're amateurs or people who know something about one thing, yet have moderation powers over things they really don't know about.

The same applies to the dustier corners of Wikipedia, where entrenched non-experts often reduce articles to the level of their own ignorance. Since nobody is getting paid for their participation in these sites, it's hardly surprising that these people end up predominating.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#230

Post by exstudent2 »

the8472 wrote: post #226
exstudent2 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if this behavior is real, the term is condescending and I see a ton of speculation about the impact of this type of thing, zero data.

> the term is condescending It perfectly encapsulates how those people are perceived. They drain the fun out of helping others. Playing language police is unlikely to gain you any more ears from people who feel drained by the vampires. > ton of speculation about the impact of this type of thing, zero data. Do you expect them to have a positive impact that would increase if moderation were decreased?

It's unprofessional for a company to refer to its users like this. Calling people names is childish and helps nothing.

> Do you expect them to have a positive impact that would increase if moderation were decreased?

My theory is that the cost of this behavior is near zero but "fighting" it is being used as cover for abusive mod behavior and a culture of intolerance that's chasing away high value users. I for one don't contribute to the site anymore and I know I'm not alone.

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