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The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

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Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#191

Post by DanBC »

x1798DE wrote: post #186
hjnilsson wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the crusade against duplicates worsens this problem. If duplicates were more accepted, it would both make it more welcoming for newcomers to ask questions, and encourage people to update the answers to old questions (by answering the new questions).

I don't totally understand why people worry so much about your question being marked as a duplicate. Questions marked as duplicates are not deleted and still show up in search results - the reason why duplicates are still kept around after being marked is because they sorta want duplicate questions on the site, because every person is going to state their query in slightly different language, and you want people sear…

If you ask a question and it genuinely has been answered elsewhere a friendly note "I think your question is answered here [url], is there anything that isn't answered by that question?" is useful. But "duplicate of [url]" often links to a question that has enough differences to not be a dupe. It's hostile, and it's a sign that incentives are out of alignment.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#194

Post by samastur »

maaaats wrote: post #146
samastur wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now people start asking hard stuff - but engineers (I intentionally do not say developers) who know answers on these questions are not interested in answering. I can't speak for others, but in my case it is not for lack of interest. I don't have enough 'reputation' to be allowed to answer questions and am too busy to find earning it a good use of my time.

>I don't have enough 'reputation' to be allowed to answer questions You don't need reputation to ask or answer questions, so this is FUD.

Well, it was when I tried to do it and I haven't gone back to check if it changed. Busy, remember?

So probably mistaken, but hardly FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt).

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#195

Post by sireat »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #179
grecy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. For the first time in a while, I've picked up a language I have not used for almost 15 years. Google is helping immensely, and I've been shocked at how often (>95%) of the time the first result is SO, and that answer is perfect. So much so I've stopped searching google, I've just got a lot of SO tabs open. It might not be perfect, though I'd say it's the best by a massive margin.

The biggest problem for me is which SO site to search. If I've a problem with a bit of bash script to control KDE on Ubuntu then is that Superuser, Unix, SO, AskUbuntu, or ... I don't understand why the site is split up in that manner. So whilst I'll often choose an SO site I can't use their search. Try "KDE notifications from bash scripts" for example. Google will show that there are answers on SO and Unix.stackexch…

This is my problem too, why did SO decide to split the site into so many silos?

I have 10+ memberships at Stack Exchange network most of them math/programming related and it seems so silly.

Sure, keep the multiple brands if that is what your investors want but make it searchable and taggable across sites.

Often I will see a question posted on main SO that would have been perfect by the Stack Exchange rules on some other stack exchange site.

Instead it just gets closed and whoever asked must feel quite dispirited of asking again.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#196

Post by wnoise »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #189
cezarywojcik wrote: post #93

On the opposite end of the "new user" perspective that is trying to ask a good question, as someone who is seeking to sometimes answer questions, it is pretty hard to actually find a good question. The vast majority of the questions I run into _are_, in fact, duplicates, poorly worded/incomprehensible, far too broad, etc. (one example that has stuck with me is "how do I install HTML/JavaScript on my computer?"). Thou…

> SO isn't a resource to hand-hold you when you're learning something new. It's a resource for asking specific questions when you can't find the solution anywhere else (and you've actually tried). Why not? A lot of people need help, why not just politely point them in the right direction. Or if you feel that that is beneath you just ignore them. If someone asks a question like "Which is the best tool for solving prob…

> Why not?

Well, that's not the problem the site owners were trying to solve, and it appears that trying to solve it would impact what they are trying to do.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#197

Post by exstudent2 »

discreditable wrote: post #96
Eupolemos wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "vampires"? I have an interest in forums, but I'm not familiar with that "category".

Help Vampires are users who incessantly ask simple and/or previously-answered questions and provide nothing of value to the community. Over time, they can drive valuable contributors away. http://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/

That post (aside from being overly juvenile) is pure speculation and not backed by any sort of data that would suggest that "help vampires" impact the larger community.

It's an extremely condescending and unprofessional term to refer to your less experienced users. It really betrays the core problem with the SO staff. They've gone moderation mad and see the user base as the enemy.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#198

Post by x1798DE »

DanBC wrote: post #191
x1798DE wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't totally understand why people worry so much about your question being marked as a duplicate. Questions marked as duplicates are not deleted and still show up in search results - the reason why duplicates are still kept around after being marked is because they sorta want duplicate questions on the site, because every person is going to state their query in slightly different language, and you want people sear…

If you ask a question and it genuinely has been answered elsewhere a friendly note "I think your question is answered here [url], is there anything that isn't answered by that question?" is useful. But "duplicate of [url]" often links to a question that has enough differences to not be a dupe. It's hostile, and it's a sign that incentives are out of alignment.

But just telling someone the answer might be available somewhere else doesn't direct future traffic to the canonical question, which is the entire point of the "marked as duplicate" flag. If your question gets marked as duplicate and the question it's a duplicate of is a different question, it is not very hard to get it "re-opened". Maybe people don't know that this is true, but I think the main people having problems with questions marked as duplicates are new users where you've had very little time to educate them about what it means to have your question marked as a duplicate (basically, not much). Even if you made the "marked as duplicate" flag less obtrusive or whatever, politely saying, "Your question may have an answer at " probably will get interpreted as "RTFM", and called user-hostile as well.

As an aside, my only experience with having a question marked as a duplicate happened on a sister SE site - it was my first post there, I asked a question, then after posting I found the answer in one of the "related questions" links on the sidebar. I answered my own question with a link to the other question and a description of the answer I found there, then flagged my own post as a duplicate. Both the question and answer were highly upvoted.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#199

Post by reitanqild »

gotofritz wrote: post #174
kaffeemitsahne wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people in this thread are saying SO's issues are inevitable in a community of that scale, but is it really true? Is it inevitable that two different questions with different answers will be marked duplicates of each other, for example?

I don't see the problem, since you can jump to the other question, it means all new answers will only happen in one place. Sure it can be improved, but it's not something that bothers me in practice TBH

It seems to me you aree providing a perfect example here:

From what I can see you did not read the post you answered to (Is it inevitable that two different questions with different answers will be marked duplicates of each other, for example?), yet you hand out the answer like the ones we criticise for rubber stamping "duplicate" etc.

Re: The decline of Stack Overflow (2015)

#200

Post by david-given »

EpicEng wrote: post #70
dandare wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No matter what choices we make there will be upset people. Sure, I have no idea what you have to deal with on a daily basis and in the end the content is mostly helpful so you are probably doing it right. But in more than few occasions I have been treated like a dirty beggar/shoplifter/moron/(you name it) for actually asking a question (or answering one)! Yes I need you and yes I owe you a lot - but I don't like yo…

And I'm sure you'll have the same experience elsewhere. Once a site like SO gets large enough to be really useful to a lot of people you're going to also have to deal with an influx of the type of users you don't like. I don't know how you solve that problem.

One of the problems with SO, though is that frequently, once you get one ranty idiot tearing a hole into you for being so stupid as to ask a question they have personal problems with, you're stuffed.

Because once it receives one downvote, you'll get pile-on downvotes, particularly if it's an entertainingly abusive rant; which means that nobody will ever see it again. And you can't change the wording and repost, because you know that there will be people who will notice that it's a repost, and then it gets even worse.

You will never get help with that question, because of one ranty idiot.

And if you try to complain, the official response from the moderators is to suck it up and deal [paraphrased slightly].

Not that I'm bitter, or anything.

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