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As Our Jobs Are Automated, Some Say We'll Need a Guaranteed Basic Income

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Re: As Our Jobs Are Automated, Some Say We'll Need a Guaranteed Basic Income

#31

Post by justinhj »

endswapper wrote: post #2

The Altman quote is on target "I think it’s good to start studying this early. I’m fairly confident that at some point in the future, as technology continues to eliminate traditional jobs and massive new wealth gets created, we’re going to see some version of this at a national scale." However, it will likely be called something different in the near-term in order to gather momentum. Often the argument focuses on the…

In the US at least,wealth does not seem to flow downwards. Much labour was outsourced to cheaper countries with less laws and morale constraints. I don't see the guys displaced from US factories enjoying those savings. More likely the profits were taxed at low rate in another country while the real money went to exec compensation.

Re: As Our Jobs Are Automated, Some Say We'll Need a Guaranteed Basic Income

#32

Post by [deleted] »

endswapper wrote: post #2

The Altman quote is on target "I think it’s good to start studying this early. I’m fairly confident that at some point in the future, as technology continues to eliminate traditional jobs and massive new wealth gets created, we’re going to see some version of this at a national scale." However, it will likely be called something different in the near-term in order to gather momentum. Often the argument focuses on the…

[deleted]

Re: As Our Jobs Are Automated, Some Say We'll Need a Guaranteed Basic Income

#33

Post by protomyth »

mattmanser wrote: post #29
protomyth wrote: post #24

At this point, I have grown sour on Guaranteed Basic Income and would rather a Prorated Guaranteed Minimum Income. I do realize it would be more open to fraud, but I just cannot see something without means testing going into effect. I would also hope the thing pays out in daily amounts, as opposed to the once a month problem of our current payments. I still believe there will be non-ai jobs. In the near term, I'm won…

The reason no-one wants means testing is that it adds a massive bureaucratic overhead to the system, which actually defies part of the point of basic income, which is to get rid of most other, costly to run, social programs.

I believe that GMI also gets rid of all the other social programs. I just don't think it will fly that Bill Gates gets a payment. That is going to be a big opposition to overcome.

I don't get where you can say "no one" since plenty of people want means testing for Social Security, etc. right now.

Re: As Our Jobs Are Automated, Some Say We'll Need a Guaranteed Basic Income

#34

Post by objectivistbrit »

endswapper wrote: post #2

The Altman quote is on target "I think it’s good to start studying this early. I’m fairly confident that at some point in the future, as technology continues to eliminate traditional jobs and massive new wealth gets created, we’re going to see some version of this at a national scale." However, it will likely be called something different in the near-term in order to gather momentum. Often the argument focuses on the…

People who seriously think a basic income future is desirable should invest the bulk of their research efforts in automation technology. How do you build a fully automated farm? How do you build a fully automated factory and logistics network? How do you build a fully automated hospital? How do you build robots capable of maintaining and fixing all these automated systems?

All these things are way beyond current technology. If they could be built, we'd effectively be in a Star Trek post-scarcity economy, and money would probably no longer be needed. That day is a long way off, though.

Re: As Our Jobs Are Automated, Some Say We'll Need a Guaranteed Basic Income

#35

Post by zxcvvcxz »

cstanley wrote: post #4

So we can all play more video games: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/23/why-a... "Most of the blame for the struggle of male, less-educated workers has been attributed to lingering weakness in the economy, particularly in male-dominated industries such as manufacturing. Yet in the new research, economists from Princeton, the University of Rochester and the University of Chicago say that an additio…

Yes, I don't know who in their right minds is thinking basic income will work out well for society based on the predilections of the masses.

Most people do. not. like. to. work. Period.

But work is good for society. Idle hands are the devil's tools after all, and where one finds high unemployment, they are almost certain to find crime, drugs, gangs, single mothers, and most everything else that reasonable people consider a step backwards in civilized society.

Now what's the other side of that coin? Young ambitious hackers that browse HN will have more leeway to easily start startups living in their parents' basements. That's a good thing, and honestly sounds very appealling even to me now (minus the parents and the basement though).

However, you have to do what is best for the most people, and while a few percent will benefit and be able to further contribute, the majority will flounder and sink into degeneracy.

That's the problem with utopian thinking. Reality and human nature always get in the way.

Re: As Our Jobs Are Automated, Some Say We'll Need a Guaranteed Basic Income

#36

Post by intrasight »

cstanley wrote: post #25
wingless wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else can they do? With the new wave of AI and automation there will be no jobs left for people with below average intelligence. You will need more and more researchers and programmers but not everyone can do those jobs.

Make art, educate themselves, read books - but the reward mechanisms of those activities are much less stimulating than those of video games.

I respectfully disagree that they are less stimulating. Those things are stimulating at a deeper and I think more grounded level.

Re: As Our Jobs Are Automated, Some Say We'll Need a Guaranteed Basic Income

#38

Post by afterburner »

h4nkoslo wrote: post #6

I haven't heard a good political-economic explanation of how a universal basic income that actually finances the living expenses of a large portion of the population avoids spiraling into yet another welfare program. The point of a UBI in the academic literature is to enable dismantling of high-overhead welfare state in favor of a low-overhead and higher-level grant (check out eg the overhead of Social Security Retir…

The actual point of UBI is to address the coming employment scarcity: labour's value's fall and capital/automation dominating everything.

The efficiency vs today's welfare systems is simply a pitch (and not necessarily an inaccurate one).

Re: As Our Jobs Are Automated, Some Say We'll Need a Guaranteed Basic Income

#39

Post by zorpner »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #35
cstanley wrote: post #4

So we can all play more video games: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/23/why-a... "Most of the blame for the struggle of male, less-educated workers has been attributed to lingering weakness in the economy, particularly in male-dominated industries such as manufacturing. Yet in the new research, economists from Princeton, the University of Rochester and the University of Chicago say that an additio…

Yes, I don't know who in their right minds is thinking basic income will work out well for society based on the predilections of the masses. Most people do. not. like. to. work. Period. But work is good for society. Idle hands are the devil's tools after all, and where one finds high unemployment, they are almost certain to find crime, drugs, gangs, single mothers, and most everything else that reasonable people cons…

where one finds high unemployment, they are almost certain to find crime, drugs, gangs, single mothers

This is because of poverty, not idle hands.

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