Live data from Hacker News

Some cities are taking another look at LED lighting after AMA warning

washingtonpost.com

31–40 of 108 posts

Re: Some cities are taking another look at LED lighting after AMA warning

#31

I'm head of engineering for a company that designs outdoor luminaires for industrial environments, but not street lights. We use LED and other technologies. Like so many things in life, there are aspects of the AMA directive with potential cause for concern, but also combined with a mixed bag of scientific underpinnings. If you have specific questions about LED physics or human vision, I'm happy to give them a go. I…

What temperature LED light should I have for my bedroom?

Re: Some cities are taking another look at LED lighting after AMA warning

#32
post #16

While that may improve sleep, it may also made driving less safe. With blue light it is easy for eyes to focus. In fact there is a theory that significant increase in myopia during the last 100 years is caused by eye work under artificial light without blue color, like from ordinary light bulb... Edit: I should have written "without blue light in spectrum eyes work harder". Basically any deviation from the spectrum o…

Apart from psychological effects, there is no reason why blue light should be easier to focus (the change in refractive index for different wavelengths is marginal).

Re: Some cities are taking another look at LED lighting after AMA warning

#33

All the studies I've found seem to say something along the lines of "blue light disturbs sleep", which seems like exactly the needed effect if you're driving at night.

You're thinking of 'promoting wakefullness' like a cup of coffee that has an immediate effect that wears off when it leaves your system. 'Disturbing sleep' means they alter your hormone production & release, which is something that begins to affect you over weeks and months. High color temperature lights disturb sleep- without promoting wakefullnes.

The light has an effect during the night as it blocks the melatonin hormone from kicking in. It takes about an hour of darkness for the hormone kick in and make you sleepy. On very long occasional drives it's probably safer to trade some sleep disturbance for a more wakeful drive. If it's your daily commute it'll probably mess up your sleep.

Re: Some cities are taking another look at LED lighting after AMA warning

#34
post #29

Let's break down their claims. > unseen blue light I have unread negative comments about this sloppy writing. They also repeatedly use the word "intense" incorrectly. Intensity refers to candela. Not lumens or temperature. > The original LED streetlights had temperatures of at least 4000K, which produces a bright white light with a high content of unseen blue light. 4000K is actually considered fairly mellow. Above 6…

> Moonlight is around 4100K. So it is even more "natural" than 3000K. Should we blot out the moon next?

I was on a hike in July during a full moon and those who were sleeping in open air (no tent or bivy bag) struggled to sleep through the night due to the moonlight.

This was in the North West of Australia, so daytime maximums were around 35C. It was too warm at night to zip your tent or bivy closed, so where possible you would try to position yourself so that you could shield yourself from the moonlight during the night.

There were quite a few afternoon nappers in the group until the moon waned a little by the second week.

Re: Some cities are taking another look at LED lighting after AMA warning

#35
post #20

Seems like there might also be an opportunity here: - Install the ones that keep people awake along highways and suchlike. - Install lights that don't disturb sleep so much in neighborhoods.

I thought this was already common around the world, say in Europe. Where 4 lane / artery / highways get brighter, whiter (bluer) lights, while 2 lane feeders and smaller roads have warmer yellow lighting. It produces an interesting nighttime aerial effect as the color indicates the nature of the street. I can't find any source to corroborate so I'd love if someone with more worldly travel experience could corroborate…

IDK, but this could simply be an effect of bigger roads getting more frequent upgrades, and/or bigger roads tolerating a larger cost per light since the total cost per meter of road is already higher.

Re: Some cities are taking another look at LED lighting after AMA warning

#36
post #34
post #29

Let's break down their claims. > unseen blue light I have unread negative comments about this sloppy writing. They also repeatedly use the word "intense" incorrectly. Intensity refers to candela. Not lumens or temperature. > The original LED streetlights had temperatures of at least 4000K, which produces a bright white light with a high content of unseen blue light. 4000K is actually considered fairly mellow. Above 6…

> Moonlight is around 4100K. So it is even more "natural" than 3000K. Should we blot out the moon next? I was on a hike in July during a full moon and those who were sleeping in open air (no tent or bivy bag) struggled to sleep through the night due to the moonlight. This was in the North West of Australia, so daytime maximums were around 35C. It was too warm at night to zip your tent or bivy closed, so where possibl…

No one carried a bandanna that they could use as an eye mask? I've done that even when the night time low was 35C.

Re: Some cities are taking another look at LED lighting after AMA warning

#37

Can't they simply get units with a 2800K white point?

I'm sure the LED manufacturers will take full advantage of this opportunity to create "true-light healthy LEDs", for which they can charge double or triple.

You can already get some (actually really nice) LEDs for your house that change color to lower temperature (more orange/red) as they dim, mimicking the effect of dimming incandescents. It does make for a nice cozy atmosphere. As you say, they're not cheap, but I'd consider them strongly if I were redecorating.

Edit: it's confusing that a cool blue light is a high temperature, and a warm orange light is a low temperature.

Re: Some cities are taking another look at LED lighting after AMA warning

#39
post #29

Let's break down their claims. > unseen blue light I have unread negative comments about this sloppy writing. They also repeatedly use the word "intense" incorrectly. Intensity refers to candela. Not lumens or temperature. > The original LED streetlights had temperatures of at least 4000K, which produces a bright white light with a high content of unseen blue light. 4000K is actually considered fairly mellow. Above 6…

I would also submit that Kelvin is not an appropriate reference for the colour of LED lights. Kelvin only makes sense when discussing blackbody emissions, it is essentially a description of temperature. LEDs do not create light via simple heating. Their spectrum is not the smooth blackbody curve that the kelvin scale suggests. It is in fact a combination of several strong emissions at narrow wavelengths that combine to fool our senses into perceiving white light.

Proper discussion of harmful emissions from LEDs should instead speak of intensities at a particular wavelength and perhaps ratios between wavelengths rather than an outdated reference designed for blackbodies.

Re: Some cities are taking another look at LED lighting after AMA warning

#40
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not. I already use flux on my laptop and would love it if my phone supported that too.

http://www.macrumors.com/how-to/use-ios-9-3-night-shift-mode... https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.urbandroid...

Maybe it's just me, but Twilight never felt as pleasant as f.lux and redshift do on my PCs. Instead of changing the screen color, it seems to add a red layer over the content.

EDIT: It's not just me: https://forum.justgetflux.com/topic/2591/exactly-why-do-you-...

Post reply on HN