For information, all "cantons" (26) approved this vote. You can see the details here: https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/documentation/votes/201609...
Swiss endorse new surveillance powers
11–20 of 86 posts
Re: Swiss endorse new surveillance powers
#12I think it really boils down to not enough people understanding the issues and the problems. I had seen (once or twice) people out on the streets campaigning against it to raise awareness on the weekends, but honestly, it was not enough. Only the hard-core techies understood (or appeared to understand) the issue - at least around the area of Zürich where I work I can't think of anyone who thought it was a good idea.…
Please correct me if I wrong, but it seems to me from the description in the OP that this is nothing compared to mass surveillance in other countries. Notably, it requires a court authorization to put somebody under surveillance, which is something that even Snowden would approve if I recall correctly.
Yup, this was also my understanding. Nothing like what the NSA or other agencies would do.
Re: Swiss endorse new surveillance powers
#13I think it really boils down to not enough people understanding the issues and the problems. I had seen (once or twice) people out on the streets campaigning against it to raise awareness on the weekends, but honestly, it was not enough. Only the hard-core techies understood (or appeared to understand) the issue - at least around the area of Zürich where I work I can't think of anyone who thought it was a good idea.…
I also live and work in Zurich in a 'techie' job and almost everyone is happy with the new surveillance laws and powers. They are sensible, needed and have the correct number of safeguards. Why do you think they go too far?
Re: Swiss endorse new surveillance powers
#14I imagine one of the differences in context is Swiss Citizens don't have an outright distrust of their government, relatively speaking.
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Re: Swiss endorse new surveillance powers
#15I think it really boils down to not enough people understanding the issues and the problems. I had seen (once or twice) people out on the streets campaigning against it to raise awareness on the weekends, but honestly, it was not enough. Only the hard-core techies understood (or appeared to understand) the issue - at least around the area of Zürich where I work I can't think of anyone who thought it was a good idea.…
Please correct me if I wrong, but it seems to me from the description in the OP that this is nothing compared to mass surveillance in other countries. Notably, it requires a court authorization to put somebody under surveillance, which is something that even Snowden would approve if I recall correctly.
Isn't that what surveillance started as in the U.S.? Give 'em an inch...
Re: Swiss endorse new surveillance powers
#16It's the only reasonable thing to do.
The geeks and techies endlessly complain about privacy issues etc. when it comes to government boosting up security, but still no one has seen nor there is any concrete problems with that. Terrorism on the other hand is killing innocent people all the time everywhere so people giving government these right is a no brainer.
Re: Swiss endorse new surveillance powers
#17I think it really boils down to not enough people understanding the issues and the problems. I had seen (once or twice) people out on the streets campaigning against it to raise awareness on the weekends, but honestly, it was not enough. Only the hard-core techies understood (or appeared to understand) the issue - at least around the area of Zürich where I work I can't think of anyone who thought it was a good idea.…
"I think it really boils down to not enough people understanding the issues and the problems."
FWIW: This is literally the retort everyone has to anything they disagree with that gets approved.
It's unrelated to surveillance.
People always assume "if only people knew what i knew, they would have agreed with me". This is a really bad assumption.
In fact, most of the time, i'd argue exactly the opposite:
People understood fine, they just disagree.
Re: Swiss endorse new surveillance powers
#18I think it really boils down to not enough people understanding the issues and the problems. I had seen (once or twice) people out on the streets campaigning against it to raise awareness on the weekends, but honestly, it was not enough. Only the hard-core techies understood (or appeared to understand) the issue - at least around the area of Zürich where I work I can't think of anyone who thought it was a good idea.…
"I think it really boils down to not enough people understanding the issues and the problems." FWIW: This is literally the retort everyone has to anything they disagree with that gets approved. It's unrelated to surveillance. People always assume "if only people knew what i knew, they would have agreed with me". This is a really bad assumption. In fact, most of the time, i'd argue exactly the opposite: People underst…
Apparently so.
Re: Swiss endorse new surveillance powers
#19I think it really boils down to not enough people understanding the issues and the problems. I had seen (once or twice) people out on the streets campaigning against it to raise awareness on the weekends, but honestly, it was not enough. Only the hard-core techies understood (or appeared to understand) the issue - at least around the area of Zürich where I work I can't think of anyone who thought it was a good idea.…
I keep hearing this line that only techies understand, but I think it's a problem of historical ignorance. The state education system has little incentive to inform people if its past abuses, so it seems people are blind to the history of state surveillance.
Re: Swiss endorse new surveillance powers
#20I think it really boils down to not enough people understanding the issues and the problems. I had seen (once or twice) people out on the streets campaigning against it to raise awareness on the weekends, but honestly, it was not enough. Only the hard-core techies understood (or appeared to understand) the issue - at least around the area of Zürich where I work I can't think of anyone who thought it was a good idea.…
Or maybe they do and are okay with the trade offs. Consider that Switzerland requires voting on each citizenship application. Different countries and cultures have different set of norms. E.g. I can see lots of East and South Asian countries adopting a similar approach.