Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts

snapeda.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 110 posts

Re: Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts

#71

Post by zem »

Cyph0n wrote: post #69
akiselev wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't answer the dark pattern concern at all and you're just dodging the issue. When people hear trial they think "free time to make my decision" not "10 days for $300" which is what this will be for anyone who forgets to cancel (hint: any EE on a deadline but I guess you know that). This is just predatory.

Isn't that standard practice? For example, after the Netflix free 1-month trial, you immediately get charged for the upcoming month. So isn't it up to the customer to make sure he/she doesn't break the terms of the trial i.e. try it for "too long"?

being standard practice doesn't make it any less of a dark pattern. it's just that tons of companies have decided it's fine to cheat users for an extra revenue stream

Re: Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts

#72

Post by Cyph0n »

zem wrote: post #71
Cyph0n wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that standard practice? For example, after the Netflix free 1-month trial, you immediately get charged for the upcoming month. So isn't it up to the customer to make sure he/she doesn't break the terms of the trial i.e. try it for "too long"?

being standard practice doesn't make it any less of a dark pattern. it's just that tons of companies have decided it's fine to cheat users for an extra revenue stream

Exactly how is it cheating? As long as the service clearly states upfront that your card will be charged at the end of your trial, it's the user's decision whether or not to proceed.

I'd argue that it would add some amount of inconvenience to the user, and lower conversion rates as a result, if the user has to pay to continue using the service.

Re: Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts

#73

Post by akiselev »

natashabaker wrote: post #67
akiselev wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't answer the dark pattern concern at all and you're just dodging the issue. When people hear trial they think "free time to make my decision" not "10 days for $300" which is what this will be for anyone who forgets to cancel (hint: any EE on a deadline but I guess you know that). This is just predatory.

Thanks for the feedback. It might make sense to remove the free trial then because the main feature in it is just parts requests which people can now test with this new InstaPart feature.

If you have other killer features in the trial then just provide discounts for parts (say $19 during the trial) and remove the dark pattern instead of removing trials all together. I actually do need this service now and $29 per part is a drop in the bucket, especially since a lot of parts I need have nonstandard footprints. I can check and correct a footprint against a datasheet much faster than I can draw it so there's little risk to my deadline but the trial dark pattern is very off putting even if $300 is nothing compared to revenue. I'd love a service like this but it won't save me more than 2-4 days of work during a 2-3 month long contract so soft concerns like this can easily keep me from paying for a product.

Re: Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts

#74

Post by akiselev »

zbrozek wrote: post #48

I'm a professional hardware engineer, and doing this kind of work is something I do frequently and begrudgingly. Having this kind of service available will be a huge help. Some thoughts: - Who writes the style guide? How do you make aesthetic decisions? - Will you support multiple symbol styles? Would it be possible to upload stylesheets or specially annotated schematics and then regenerate already-extant parts in th…

I second the speed requirement. The most I've ever spent is an hour on making a schematic symbol and two hours for a footprint, both when I was very inexperienced with Altium and using a ~500 pin part. Now that I'm comfortable with Altium's IPC templates and batch editing features (you can pull up a copy pastable spreadsheet that allows you to quickly edit all shapes on a footprint without the UI), even the most complex parts take under a half hour. $29 is nothing for 20 min of work but depending on your workflow, waiting a day is unacceptable. I can rarely predict the kind of part swapping that will happen before PCB layout so footprints are the first step that has to happen in the first few days after schematic capture. Since the footprints are a blocking concern for part placement, I don't have much patience especially on a deadline since I can just draw all the parts myself while waiting for the first footprint to come in.

The other problem is that the vast majority of professional engineers check the footprints meticulously before fabrication even if they made the footprint for a previously successful project. It only takes a day or two and must be done regardless so it removes a lot of the added value InstaPart can provide.

Although most of this doesn't apply to the more hobbyist market, they generally aren't willing to pay $29 for anything let alone a single footprint.

Re: Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts

#75

Post by akiselev »

rfrank wrote: post #62
StavrosK wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the process, yes, but it's not really that lengthy. You can usually just add the first pin and then copy/paste the rest in the row really quickly.

Yeah, for the most part library stuff is quick. Some tools let you pattern place the pins and plop them all down at once. High pin count parts like FPGAs and connectors with weird footprints are the big time sinks.

Weird footprints are really the only time consuming part with modern EDA software. Tools like Altium have templates, footprint generators, and features for bulk editing symbols and footprints so all you do is create a quick Excel spreadsheet with pin number and formulas for x and y (especially easy for FPGAs and processors with pins in a grid). You copy paste that spreadsheet into Altium and you're done. It takes me less than 10 minutes to manually draw a footprint for a 500+ pin processor this way.

Re: Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts

#76

Post by irascible »

Cyph0n wrote: post #72
zem wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

being standard practice doesn't make it any less of a dark pattern. it's just that tons of companies have decided it's fine to cheat users for an extra revenue stream

Exactly how is it cheating? As long as the service clearly states upfront that your card will be charged at the end of your trial, it's the user's decision whether or not to proceed. I'd argue that it would add some amount of inconvenience to the user, and lower conversion rates as a result, if the user has to pay to continue using the service.

A way to fix this, would be to have a check box to send a reminder email with an opt out button, before the new charges kick in. But companies don't do that. And that's why it's evil.

Re: Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts

#77

Post by zem »

Cyph0n wrote: post #72
zem wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

being standard practice doesn't make it any less of a dark pattern. it's just that tons of companies have decided it's fine to cheat users for an extra revenue stream

Exactly how is it cheating? As long as the service clearly states upfront that your card will be charged at the end of your trial, it's the user's decision whether or not to proceed. I'd argue that it would add some amount of inconvenience to the user, and lower conversion rates as a result, if the user has to pay to continue using the service.

put it this way - if you asked users up-front "when your trial expires, should we convert you to a paying customer and automatically start billing you?", what fraction of them would say "yes"? i'd guess it's pretty low, and most companies know it. the fact that they're deliberately taking advantage of people's tendency to forget to cancel counts as cheating in my book.

Re: Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts

#78

Post by Teever »

Cyph0n wrote: post #72
zem wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

being standard practice doesn't make it any less of a dark pattern. it's just that tons of companies have decided it's fine to cheat users for an extra revenue stream

Exactly how is it cheating? As long as the service clearly states upfront that your card will be charged at the end of your trial, it's the user's decision whether or not to proceed. I'd argue that it would add some amount of inconvenience to the user, and lower conversion rates as a result, if the user has to pay to continue using the service.

It's a business model that is dependent on people forgetting, on people that make a mistake.

It's predatory.

Re: Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts

#79

Post by jazzychad »

natashabaker wrote: post #56
jazzychad wrote: post #53

Very cool! I can't seem find any links to click on to actually order parts from manufacturers when I find a part - e.g. https://www.snapeda.com/parts/MCP23017-E/SP/Microchip/view-p... There's the whole section at the top about availability and average price, but no link to go buy it? In addition to the InstaPart revenue, are you also going to make money with affiliate sales to parts sites (a la Octopart)?

If you go to the Pricing tab you'll see links to buy the parts through popular North American and European distributors. This data is supplied via Octopart.

Ah, I completely didn't see that tab... Then perhaps some usability feedback; maybe create links of the already orange text in the upper left hand box (the "Average Price") and have it auto-choose the Pricing tab below and scroll the page there? Make it super easy to find :)

Re: Show HN: InstaPart – Build circuit boards faster with instant parts

#80

Post by jpindar »

compumike wrote: post #37

Shocking that it's 2016 and the component manufacturers aren't providing this data free and online, right next to the datasheet link. Then again, after working with these companies, it's not so surprising! Congrats on the launch.

Some of them do, for instance:

http://www.microchip.com/development-tools/resources/cad-cae...

But you're right, it would make sense for them all to do so.

Post reply on HN