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How does Google know where I am?

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Re: How does Google know where I am?

#111

Post by rasz_pl »

dev1n wrote: post #71

I had someone from Google (young guy, summer job stuff) come into my office park and map out wi-fi points asking us if this office is still where the company I work for works at. Google has the resources to utilize HUMINT. That's how Google knows where you are. This guy said he does this in a bunch of cities, driving around the geographic area of the USA where I work in. Very interesting to learn about. Edit: I am no…

Did he also give away promotional google pendrives by any chance? and ask for special access to the office buildings? This sounds dodgy as f. I think your office park was being pentested.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#112

Post by LeoPanthera »

formula_ninguna wrote: post #110
pawadu wrote: post #5

This is not tower triangulation. Android searches for access points even when wifi is turned off. If anyone (with GPS enabled) uses that wifi with any google services the bssid will end up in their database. Also if the google car has been nearby it has recorded the presence of the wifi access point at that location [1]. Before you freak out: Apple and Microsoft also use access point information for positioning, alth…

Is there open source database of geo data for wifi hotspots? Or even closed source?

https://wigle.net

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#114

Post by mentat »

mikestew wrote: post #19
pawadu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This raises another imprtant question: Is it okay for a private company to have detailed positioning data from inside of your office or home? Who would really need that sort of information? I understand how this can be useful at the mall but I think I can find my way around my own house thank you.

Is it okay for a private company to have detailed positioning data from inside of your office or home? I don't know the answer to that question, but I have a guess at the answer to another question: "is it okay for a private company to create a geodatabase of SSID strings that were freely and willingly broadcast via radio?" I think the answer is "yes". Ten, fifteen years ago, if there were an HN story about how I, ow…

This existed 15 years ago, called WiGLE.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#115

Post by omilu »

jhayward wrote: post #94
sly010 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a question of terminology. When you are passively listening to (periodic) SSID beacons, you are not transmitting anything, nor consuming any energy on your radio. One could do that even in airplane mode. It's very different from when you hit "scan" and are actively sending broadcast packets on every frequency and waiting for the wifi routers to (actively) answer. Which really only happens when you pull down the l…

> or consuming any energy on your radio Listening is actually one of the more power-intensive things a radio does, because it tends to be active more of the time than transmitting does. For many radios power consumption is the same whether transmitting or receiving.

>For many radios power consumption is the same whether transmitting or receiving

This, is not right.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#116

Post by klodolph »

mirashii wrote: post #88
sly010 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a question of terminology. When you are passively listening to (periodic) SSID beacons, you are not transmitting anything, nor consuming any energy on your radio. One could do that even in airplane mode. It's very different from when you hit "scan" and are actively sending broadcast packets on every frequency and waiting for the wifi routers to (actively) answer. Which really only happens when you pull down the l…

> nor consuming any energy on your radio This simply isn't true. You'll be using power to demodulate at a minimum. You'll also be using energy to ammplify the incoming signals and a variety of other things.

Yes, this is also the reason why GPS is so power hungry--it takes a lot of power to keep a GPS radio receiver operating.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#117

Post by [deleted] »

rtkwe wrote: post #104
Gracana wrote: post #86

Wifi mapping is the method by which google has no idea where I am. My roommate moved across the country and moved in with me, and android thinks I'm at his old house whenever I connect to his wifi router, even with GPS enabled, and even having installed OpenWRT and changed the ssid of the router. It's pretty maddening.

It's because Google and other mapping companies use the BSSID (MAC) which doesn't change if you just change the SSID.

[deleted]

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#118

Post by [deleted] »

rtkwe wrote: post #104
Gracana wrote: post #86

Wifi mapping is the method by which google has no idea where I am. My roommate moved across the country and moved in with me, and android thinks I'm at his old house whenever I connect to his wifi router, even with GPS enabled, and even having installed OpenWRT and changed the ssid of the router. It's pretty maddening.

It's because Google and other mapping companies use the BSSID (MAC) which doesn't change if you just change the SSID.

[deleted]

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#119

Post by takeda »

comboy wrote: post #17
pawadu wrote: post #5

This is not tower triangulation. Android searches for access points even when wifi is turned off. If anyone (with GPS enabled) uses that wifi with any google services the bssid will end up in their database. Also if the google car has been nearby it has recorded the presence of the wifi access point at that location [1]. Before you freak out: Apple and Microsoft also use access point information for positioning, alth…

Are you sure they do that when wifi is off? I was under the impression that it only happens when wifi is on (and it seems to me that my location on the map is more stable with wifi on). That would be very not ok if it would happen with wifi off. I turn my wifi off to save the battery, and it wouldn't do much if it was still looking for broadcasts.

This was true in the past. Now wifi off is not really off. There is an obscure setting in location where you can disable it.

Of course Google does its usual, making it inconvenient. When you enable that setting wifi location is completely disabled and many apps which use finer location will trigger a popup to enable it back in order to get a better location.

They do this with any setting that benefits them. For example if you don't allow Google to store your historical location Maps won't remember any locations searched. As if it was impossible to maps store that details locally sigh.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#120

Post by badminton1 »

This was not publicly known before.

To my knowledge this Google trick was first discovered by the researcher Samy Kamkar (https://samy.pl/mapxss), though the tool no longer works.

When the tool used to work, I tested it using my home router address and it accurately located me. Then, I moved to another house, and the location remained being my old home. Then, after a couple of weeks, it got updated.

I think in the final product the resulting location is not only based off one WiFi address. It might try to crossvalidate using the multiple addresses you can see.

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