Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#181

Post by tjl » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 8:49 AM UTC

Canada wrote: post #161

tjl wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada, it's generally the case that your taxes go to pick up the garbage. They might hire a company to do it, but it's usually the municipal government that pays. I'm living in a co-op and we get a tax break since we contract ours separately. Even if it's a commercial paid service, how many companies are going to do that in a dying community?

Not in highrises. Residents for that on their own. Though it's a municipal issue, so it may depend on where you live.

True, but in my co-op (one 6 story building and one 3 story building) we get a tax break because we handle our own garbage. It's far less than our garbage bill, but it helps. I know because a) I used to be the co-op treasurer and b) we actually list it as a line item on our budget so everybody in the co-op can see it if they look.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#182

Post by AdrianB1 » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 8:50 AM UTC

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #150

AdrianB1 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are those services? There is no public education, no fire department, there is probably nothing, but they cannot just recognize "we give you nothing but we want you to pay taxes, so move somewhere else where we can give you something so you continue to pay up". It's a tax game, not a service game.

Ferry service

Lol, since when transportation is a social service? Is there any common sense left in Canada or socialism ate it all? What is NOT a social service in Canada, providing drugs and booze for the wealthy?

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#183

Post by allendoerfer » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 11:03 AM UTC

greggarious wrote: post #127

tjl wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social services like health care, I'd assume.

It's not as easy as you'd think to immigrate from Canada to the US. (Especially since it's difficult to be considered a rockstar ninja whatever if you went to a very good school like University of Toronto instead of Stanford)

Why don't they form a partnership like the EU is? Who is the opposing factor?

As a German I think it is beautiful that moving to Austria or Switzerland is basically the same as moving inside Germany. Depending on where you live, the cultural differences inside Germany might even be higher.

After that there are the English speaking countries, with a low language barrier, then the countries with very high English or German fluency (Netherlands, nordic countries etc.), which would make it easier in the beginning and the South, mostly chosen by the elderly to go on permanent vacations.

When the East keeps growing economically, it might become another great option, even for people without global customers. There are some culturally interesting cities with a good standard of living and dirt cheap prices.

I would advise Americans and Canadians to create something similar, it is great.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#184

Post by jpindar » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 11:51 AM UTC

tjl wrote: post #147

AdrianB1 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Garbage collection is not a social service, it is a commercial paid service in most of the world. In Europe I don't pay taxes for garbage collection, I pay the garbage company for the quantity they pick up.

In Canada, it's generally the case that your taxes go to pick up the garbage. They might hire a company to do it, but it's usually the municipal government that pays. I'm living in a co-op and we get a tax break since we contract ours separately. Even if it's a commercial paid service, how many companies are going to do that in a dying community?

In the most rural parts of the US, people don't have garbage collection at all. They compost some of it, burn some, and either drive the rest to the dump themselves or bury it on their own land.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#185

Post by restalis » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 1:57 PM UTC

shitgoose wrote: post #121

abz10 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about stopping the services as well a stop taxing them? Then if it is viable they can stay.

yea, right!:) that would create a dangerous precedent, when people may suddenly realize that they can organize their life perfectly well without any government. that reminds me an episode during government shutdown in US a few years ago. local services stopped cutting grass in one of the war memorials. so some veteran brought his own lawn mower and started cutting the grass. the cops showed up! they were very angry a…

The government in a broad sense is actually any form of political structure that governs a society. When some people secede and do their own laundry, unless you assume for their new society to live in harmony without any form of political structure (anarchy), then there you have got a new government!

____________

P.S.: I haven't downvoted you.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#186

Post by shitgoose » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 2:30 PM UTC

restalis wrote: post #185

shitgoose wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yea, right!:) that would create a dangerous precedent, when people may suddenly realize that they can organize their life perfectly well without any government. that reminds me an episode during government shutdown in US a few years ago. local services stopped cutting grass in one of the war memorials. so some veteran brought his own lawn mower and started cutting the grass. the cops showed up! they were very angry a…

The government in a broad sense is actually any form of political structure that governs a society. When some people secede and do their own laundry, unless you assume for their new society to live in harmony without any form of political structure (anarchy), then there you have got a new government! ____________ P.S.: I haven't downvoted you.

right, but i was obviously talking about government in a less broad sense - as an entity that uses force to coerce public into submission. which is what any self-respecting government is.

please, do not confuse anarchy with absence of political structure. if people invent a structure and voluntarily agree to follow its rules, this is anarchy (in fact this is the definition of 'anarchy'). when some group within the people invents a structure and forces others to comply with it, this is government. unfortunately the term 'anarchy' has been abused and its original meaning has been long lost.

P.S.: thank you for not down-voting, but rather explaining your point of view.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#187

Post by Grishnakh » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

emilecantin wrote: post #48

You see this on a smaller scale elsewhere in Canada, too. The global economy is changing, and this has a huge effect on small towns across the country. I know of a few towns that are mostly desert now that their main economic engine (either a large manufacturing plant or a mine) has closed down. A few of them are trying to re-center around tourism, but the most successful ones I know are attracting small tech compani…

I'm surprised it works much at all. The main draw such places have is lower cost-of-living, but in my experience and observation, the companies that locate there pay significantly lower salaries, so you end up not having any more after-rent pay than living in a metro area. Worse, you're tied to this job, so if the job doesn't work out for some reason, now you have to pack up and move. Also, finding places to rent in such towns can be hard, and buying a house is probably a bad idea because if the town is that much on the brink, you don't want to buy something that you won't be able to sell if the company folds and the town implodes.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#188

Post by st3v3r » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 5:32 PM UTC

hx87 wrote: post #82

JabavuAdams wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Combination company and techno-utopian cult? Tech Kibbutz?

You can't have a tech company that's as isolated from the rest of the world as an old school kibbutz. No fiber, no life. If there were a massive government-funded effort to get fiber to every last bit of the country then it might work.

Well, you could take the VC money you'd spend on Silicon Valley rent and salaries, and use that to bring fiber to that area.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#189

Post by dllthomas » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 6:20 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #179

dragonwriter wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its actually not hard, as there aren't any. States (like all governments) don't have rights, they have powers. And those powers are usually detailed in the state constitution. The federal Constitution limits the powers of states, assigns certain roles to the states, and reserves certain powers to them (or them and the people together), but generally the powers of the state are defined per state by the state's own fou…

State constitutions regulate the relationship between the state and its people. So they do not have rights per se in that relationship. But the term "state's rights" refers to the relationship between the states and the federal government. In that case states really do have certain rights against the fed much as individual persons have rights under the US constitution. This is most clear in case where the state sues…

Alternatively, the rights of the people of a state to choose how they are governed (along certain dimensions) without regard to the federal government.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#190

Post by norea-armozel » Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 7:52 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #151

ersii wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd seriously be fine with that. I would not mind giving up all social services, especially not if I got a cashback. That said, I would expect this to come with 'no taxation in the future' as well. That said, I am not everybody.

>> I would not mind giving up all social services, especially not if I got a cashback. It's not your decision. The collective system collapses if everyone is given the choose to opt out. Canada isn't going to let people suffer and die along in the woods without help just because they signed an opt-out form. Nor will the country allow seniors, who control most all privately-held wealth these days, to stop paying taxes…

Believe it or not there's no legal basis in the west where the government owes help to individual citizens. Protecting the good common does not in itself transfer 1-to-1 to helping Joe Blow down the street. It just happens that for the common good Joe Blow gets help. It's why cops can let a person die and still get off the hook if helping might endanger more than themselves because if their actions expand the risk to others to help a single person or a small group of people then they can be held liable for negligence. So, there's no theory in law that allows you to make the assertions you're trying to make. I strongly suggest you read on the law because I've seen people try to argue the same sort of stuff you do and find out later in court they got smacked down hard by the judge for the same reasons I've mentioned.