Does anyone have experience buying stock options from employees. I really want to own shares in a few companies that would never hire me :-(
Companies have the right of first refusal and don't like lots of unrelated people on their cap table who only hold a small amount of shares, so don't expect this to work out
House Passes Employee Stock Options Bill Aimed at Startups
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Re: House Passes Employee Stock Options Bill Aimed at Startups
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The AMT is the perfect example of when you give someone an inch they take a mile, which is why some people fight so hard against the enactment of new taxes. When the politicians were first proposing the constitutional amendment that allowed income taxes, they were throwing numbers like 1% or 2% around. It took only 4 years from the ratification of the 16th amendment for the maximum tax rate to shoot up from 7% to 6…
So you cap income tax at 2%. Congratulations you just tripled property tax and made sales tax 20%. Taxes are like wackamole. You can't just limit 1 tiny piece and expect anything to change. Furthermore you can't just lower the total take unless you want to explain where the cut is coming from. Less school funding? Less roads? Less police? Less Army? More debt?
As a general rule, you could remove any government agency created with the increase in wartime tax revenue after the war is over. That should get you back to the pre-war tax rate.
I don't want to go down the entire list[1] of agencies, since it would take the thread too far off-topic(even this response is borderline). I should shift more work to the individual states. Also cut the military: They are so disorganized they're the only government branch that can't be audited[2].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_agencies_in_th...
[2] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-audit-army-idUSKCN10U1...
Re: House Passes Employee Stock Options Bill Aimed at Startups
#63Can someone explain: if you exercise and hold the shares (eg leave the company) do you owe tax after year seven, even if the shares remain illiquid? That's the core issue: the IRS is taxing individuals on truly illiquid assets.
True, but is it the IRS' fault if the corporation refuses to create a market for their shares? If the IRS didn't tax these shares, it would quickly become a tax shelter of epic proportions, no?
The only way that this sort of makes sense is if you can pay your tax in illiquid assets - e.g. If you can pay your tax with the same shares.
The most logical tax code I know can be summarized as: no basis step-up except on an event when taxes are paid; taxes are paid whenever (and only if) something liquid gets exchanged. Even an exchange of illiquid with illiquid doesn't trigger step up or tax event.
As long as it is illiquid, taxing gains seems about as logical is randomly announcing "everyone should mark their assets now and pay taxes on unrealized gains" (which the IRS actually does if your financial asset is outside the US, but it is still crazy)
Re: House Passes Employee Stock Options Bill Aimed at Startups
#64https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Companies_of_the_United_States...
Re: House Passes Employee Stock Options Bill Aimed at Startups
#65> Only startups offering stock options to at least 80 percent of their workforce would be eligible for tax deferrals, and a company’s highest-paid executives would not be able to defer taxes on their stock under the legislation. I understand the desire to avoid a regressive taxation system, but why is it that every tax rule we create comes with 2x the amount of caveats and rules? Our tax system is becoming a mess. At…
But as far as I understand, the US tax system is also one of the 2-3 most complicated in the world... Being an permanent resident and not being used to this from my home country, Im making a lot of suboptimal financial decisions purely to avoid complicating my taxes... eg: I avoid consulting like plague, even when I have a worthwhile opportunity to do so.
Re: House Passes Employee Stock Options Bill Aimed at Startups
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the benefit of a wholly illiquid "shelter"?
That it will become liquid one day. If you get to make all sorts of incredible options deals under the cover of "not in the market" then you can simply make lots of situations like this happen and simply bring them to market when there is no risk involved for you anymore.
If there's still risk, taxes are paid, and the risk materializes and no gains are made at the end, how is that fair?
Re: House Passes Employee Stock Options Bill Aimed at Startups
#67> Only startups offering stock options to at least 80 percent of their workforce would be eligible for tax deferrals, and a company’s highest-paid executives would not be able to defer taxes on their stock under the legislation. I understand the desire to avoid a regressive taxation system, but why is it that every tax rule we create comes with 2x the amount of caveats and rules? Our tax system is becoming a mess. At…
Re: House Passes Employee Stock Options Bill Aimed at Startups
#68More evidence as to why the income tax should be replaced with a consumption tax. Just let people make their dammed money already and apply a simple tax when they spend it. Windfalls wouldn't be "dangerous" or punitive in that model, and savers would be rewarded. --Of course I oversimplify the consumption tax, and safeguard would need to be in place on that to ensure it is not regressive with respect to necessities..…
Totally agree! A consumption tax with a tax prebate (aka basic income guarantee) makes it progressive. To head off the argument that it's regressive because wealthier people spend a smaller fraction of their income: true for a snapshot in time, but not over the course of their lives. Spending a fraction of your income = saving = spending later. So in retirement they could have an effective >100% income tax rate. Also…
i.e. "putting retirees out on the street". Such a bill would need to provide a fix for that case, where someone has a fixed amount of savings intended to provide for themselves in retirement and cannot afford a sudden 10% increase in all prices.
For instance, one possible patch would be to look at people's lifetime income (already tracked by the Social Security Administration), and offer a one-time exemption up to a certain threshold, effectively calling the corresponding savings "already taxed" and providing an exemption. The challenge would be doing that without creating massive additional complexity in the tax code after that one-time event.
(This would only apply to people with post-tax retirement savings. The solution for pre-tax retirement savings is much simpler, since it won't get taxed at withdrawal anymore.)
> I'm still not positive about intergenerational wealth transfers
They wouldn't matter anymore, because they're all on the income side, and taxes would all be on the spending side. By taxing when the money gets spent, rather than when the money gets made, you no longer care where the money comes from.
You also no longer care about people who made their money in other jurisdictions, or many other issues. If you live in a country, you'll need to spend money in that country.
> I'm a big fan of a FairTax-esque approach since it simplifies things dramatically
Hopefully, but there's a pile of additional complexity involved in definition, to deal with suppliers and intermediate goods. There's a ridiculous amount of complexity in the definition of VAT; some of that is unnecessary bought-and-paid-for exemptions and adjustments on item types, but even after avoiding that, there's a pile of complexity involved in what "value added" means.
Re: House Passes Employee Stock Options Bill Aimed at Startups
#69Most employees get hit by the AMT and the step up in basis when exercising their incentive employee stock options, and from just skimming the bill, I don't see how that is prevented.
Regardless, the Obama Administration "strongly opposes" the bill in its current form since it would "increase the Federal deficit by $1 billion over the next 10 years."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/legislati...
I wonder how often bills with this "strong opposition" still end up getting passed anyway.
Re: House Passes Employee Stock Options Bill Aimed at Startups
#70Can someone explain: if you exercise and hold the shares (eg leave the company) do you owe tax after year seven, even if the shares remain illiquid? That's the core issue: the IRS is taxing individuals on truly illiquid assets.
We helped lobby and push for this bill and I'm glad to see it making progress in providing better options for startup employees.