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Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

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Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#51

Post by robterrell »

Brakenshire wrote: post #39
denzil_correa wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do these electric cars compare against Tesla?

The i3 appears to be a really well designed car. It costs about $7000 more than the model 3, but it already exists. And they've just increased the battery capacity 50%, so the nominal range is 200 miles, or 275 with the range extender. I just read BMW think they can double that by 2020. Tesla certainly has at least some competition.

As an i3 driver... I don't think it's very competitive. The range is pretty far from the stated numbers. Noticeably worse than the much cheaper Fiat 500e, even.

I wouldn't compare anything to the model 3, though, because I don't believe teals will hit their dates or price point.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#52

Post by TAForObvReasons »

vinay427 wrote: post #46
fma wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM is a very early adopter of the connect car, with their On Stsr technology. Your Chevy Volt should have it and if it's a newer model probably LTE. I would guess that there's some contractual or legal obligation that says GM cannot do work on your car. The dealers must do the work, and then get reimbursed by GM. There's antiquated laws hat dictate manufacturer and dealer relationship, the most famous one being a man…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original rationale behind requiring cars to be sold through dealers was to regulate the market and create competition among different dealers. Without that requirement, manufacturers could easily undercut dealers due to lower overhead. I'm not really sure what the point of car dealers is, but they have somehow found a way to prove themselves "necessary" to some lawmakers in…

> I'm not really sure what the point of car dealers is

From a DOJ analysis:

> Auto production is a capital-intensive business and a franchise system allowed manufacturers to concentrate their resources upstream while accessing capital through franchise fees from independent entrepreneurs at the retail level.

Given capital availability and resources at the time, it made sense for the auto makers to franchise.

https://www.justice.gov/atr/economic-effects-state-bans-dire...

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#53

Post by antoniuschan99 »

kangman wrote: post #48
Brakenshire wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The i3 appears to be a really well designed car. It costs about $7000 more than the model 3, but it already exists. And they've just increased the battery capacity 50%, so the nominal range is 200 miles, or 275 with the range extender. I just read BMW think they can double that by 2020. Tesla certainly has at least some competition.

Not a fan of the design though. I'm sure it's functional but to my eyes it looks more frankencar than daily driver.

only other one that looks decent is the e-golf and focus. but not a fan of hatchbacks

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#54

Post by rebootthesystem »

vinay427 wrote: post #46
fma wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM is a very early adopter of the connect car, with their On Stsr technology. Your Chevy Volt should have it and if it's a newer model probably LTE. I would guess that there's some contractual or legal obligation that says GM cannot do work on your car. The dealers must do the work, and then get reimbursed by GM. There's antiquated laws hat dictate manufacturer and dealer relationship, the most famous one being a man…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original rationale behind requiring cars to be sold through dealers was to regulate the market and create competition among different dealers. Without that requirement, manufacturers could easily undercut dealers due to lower overhead. I'm not really sure what the point of car dealers is, but they have somehow found a way to prove themselves "necessary" to some lawmakers in…

Dealers must provide value. Using laws to "create" competition is foolish and wrong.

If there's no value in me buying a screwdriver set from Home Depot I should be able to buy it from anyone else, including the manufacturer.

In other words, there's no fundamental reason or "right" that says a dealer must exist between a manufacturer of a good and the consumers of that good. Forcing such a structure is artificial and causes problems.

For example, lots of people hate the car buying experience and dealing with a "mafia-like" (as a friend put it) dynamic between hungry commission-based sales people and the manager in the back. The whole process is disgusting. It took three hours to get out of the dealer last time I bought a car and it was a brawl to not get screwed.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#55

Post by gambiting »

Brakenshire wrote: post #39
denzil_correa wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do these electric cars compare against Tesla?

The i3 appears to be a really well designed car. It costs about $7000 more than the model 3, but it already exists. And they've just increased the battery capacity 50%, so the nominal range is 200 miles, or 275 with the range extender. I just read BMW think they can double that by 2020. Tesla certainly has at least some competition.

If only it didn't look like a product of 4 different design departments welded together at the last minute, it would be almost perfect. Seriously, look at that car from the side - each panel(front body, front door, rear door, rear body) literally comes from a different designer - it doesn't even have a consistent line throughout.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#56

Post by daveguy »

Reason077 wrote: post #45
mistermann wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does every car have an LTE connection? Do you have to buy a sim from your local provider or how does that work?

Every recent Tesla has a built-in LTE connection. (I think some of the earlier models were 3G only) You don't need to buy your own SIM - it comes with its own international roaming SIM, with free data for 8 years.

What happens in 8 years? Do you pay Tesla for a subscription?

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#57

Post by rebootthesystem »

Brakenshire wrote: post #39
denzil_correa wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do these electric cars compare against Tesla?

The i3 appears to be a really well designed car. It costs about $7000 more than the model 3, but it already exists. And they've just increased the battery capacity 50%, so the nominal range is 200 miles, or 275 with the range extender. I just read BMW think they can double that by 2020. Tesla certainly has at least some competition.

The i3 and i8 are terrible cars as far as I am concerned. Range sucks. And, frankly, if I have to go to a gas station might as well get rid of the electric components and make a nice car. I like the physical design of the i8. I spent a hour looking at one. Ultimately, the idea of having to endure both visiting a gas station and plugging in just turned me off. I'd consider it as a pure electric with decent range or gas only but not the combo.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#58

Post by rebootthesystem »

> Working out of a three-door garage

Enough said.

Nothing against garage startups. I started all my businesses in my garage. But if you are going to go out there and claim to "take on" a market leader you need to exist at a different physical, organizational, technological and financial scale.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#59

Post by Brakenshire »

gambiting wrote: post #55
Brakenshire wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The i3 appears to be a really well designed car. It costs about $7000 more than the model 3, but it already exists. And they've just increased the battery capacity 50%, so the nominal range is 200 miles, or 275 with the range extender. I just read BMW think they can double that by 2020. Tesla certainly has at least some competition.

If only it didn't look like a product of 4 different design departments welded together at the last minute, it would be almost perfect. Seriously, look at that car from the side - each panel(front body, front door, rear door, rear body) literally comes from a different designer - it doesn't even have a consistent line throughout.

I saw one the other day in my town, and liked the look of it. It does look wonky in photo shoots, but people don't look at cars in the same way in real life.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#60

Post by Brakenshire »

nradov wrote: post #50
Brakenshire wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The i3 appears to be a really well designed car. It costs about $7000 more than the model 3, but it already exists. And they've just increased the battery capacity 50%, so the nominal range is 200 miles, or 275 with the range extender. I just read BMW think they can double that by 2020. Tesla certainly has at least some competition.

No, for the latest i3 BMW only claims a range of 114 miles. https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0259560EN...

I was just reading a review which said 200 under ideal conditions, interesting that BMW claim so much less. Does anyone know is there a shared standard for these claims, used by Tesla and the other companies? When Tesla says 200 miles for the model 3, is that 200 miles with a.c. and hills, or is a theoretical maximum?
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