Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#111

Post by CountSessine » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 7:45 PM UTC

sedachv wrote: post #60

Tiktaalik wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a big part of it. It's not that the cities are expensive, it's that they're so unaffordable. This is especially so in Vancouver where the average income (~C43k)[1] is lower than Toronto, and yet prices are higher. The large disparity between local incomes and housing prices is a major reason why there is so much attention on the implications of foreign capital on Vancouver's housing market. It seems like ther…

Vancouver real estate is the way it is because it has been targeted by Chinese ponzi schemes, bank fraud schemes, and money laundering: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/out-of-... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/canadia... http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/chinese-police-run-...

It's fascinating watching the carnage on mls now, with the 15% tax in place. No one can sell their houses now. And everyone seems to have a story about holding an open house that no one attends. The money is just gone.

It's just like the market collapse back in the late 80's when interest rates climbed into the double-digits; no discretionary seller wants to lower their price from $1.3 million when that was a feasible offer 2 months ago, but no one wants (or rather no one is left) to offer that price. The market just seizes and eventually non-discretionary sellers are left to define the market.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#112

Post by Dylan16807 » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 7:51 PM UTC

sctb wrote: post #63

falsestprophet wrote: post #33

"but the title is clickbait" Almost every Bloomberg title is clickbait [1]. Probably Bloomberg should be flagged for title correction. Perhaps: "Canadian government offering relocation to homeowners from some declining villages" Financial news readers may enjoy Reuters, which has far less irritatingly misleading titles. [1] source: Bloomberg.com

We've updated the title and detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12557290 and marked it off-topic.

The problem with doing it like this is that I was an inch away from replying to the very top comment that still calls the title clickbait. I had to reach the very bottom of the page to realize that was talking about a different title.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#113

Post by 8note » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 7:53 PM UTC

guessmyname wrote: post #4

TL;DR — Fishing villages [...] sent into a tailspin by a fishery collapse, oil-price slump and mounting debt that left it with Canada’s most severe fiscal and demographic crisis. The provincial government now is pushing to close places like Little Bay Islands altogether rather than service them, offering [...] at least C$250,000 ($189,000) each to leave—and spurring a bitter, three-year fight over whether to cash out…

Newfoundland is mostly cliffs around the ocean.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#114

Post by guardiangod » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 7:55 PM UTC

CountSessine wrote: post #110

trapperkeeper79 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poster has a point. Toronto real-estate has been said to be on the verge of collapse since 2004. It keeps growing at insane rates .. we're talking around 10% per annum (don't recall the actual figure). Also, this is despite a ton of construction .. we're talking near-China level cranes here ... any open space near subway lines turns into condos. Lots of stories of people flipping pre-construction units, waiting in li…

Lots of stories of people flipping pre-construction units, waiting in line for days to put a deposit down on new construction This has to be one of the strangest complaints, along with shadow flipping, that's come out of the real-estate debacle here in Vancouver. Builders need to achieve 100% or near 100% sell-through on units in a project. Doing that through a pre-sell is hard, so they've traditionally offered a sma…

If a pre-sell buyer decides to flip the property immediately, what harm is there in that

http://www2.jurock.com/articles/columnist.asp?id=9370

But in 2008, worldwide financial markets tanked and with it condo markets in Vancouver. By December 2008, some 200 presale unit owners were offering their contracts on Craigslist - often at a loss. (On March 20, 2012 there were just 39.) When that did not work, many simply did not complete the deal and lost their deposit. Some lost not only their deposit, but where the price of the unit had fallen they were sued by the developer for the difference (developers won in many cases).

Needless to say, developers once burned have now tightened up the contracts. Buyers must realize that developers get their financing on the basis of pre-sales and rightfully expect and deserve all pre-sales in their development to complete.

Also, you then have issues with insider buying/selling etc. It's just not worth the hassle for the developers.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2823397/vancouver-pre-sale-condo-m...

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#115

Post by allendoerfer » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 8:15 PM UTC

greggarious wrote: post #101

burnt1ce wrote: post #6

I actually live in Toronto and I agree real estate here is expensive. What I don't get is WAY more expensive in places like London, Hong Kong, New York and San Francisco but I don't hear as many complaints or alarms going off in those areas. Why? Is this just me being oblivious?

I'm an American, so take what I say with a grain of salt... but maybe part of it is that Canada has a small population but a large land area. There's basically four major cities a Millenial would consider: Vancouver, Toronto, Monteal, and Ottawa. (And I've heard the latter crapped on even by Canadians.) Montreal is lovely, but if you're an Anglophone. Compare with the United States: New York is a large city, but I co…

What is holding people from Vancouver off to move to Portland?

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#116

Post by SamBam » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 8:16 PM UTC

guessmyname wrote: post #4

TL;DR — Fishing villages [...] sent into a tailspin by a fishery collapse, oil-price slump and mounting debt that left it with Canada’s most severe fiscal and demographic crisis. The provincial government now is pushing to close places like Little Bay Islands altogether rather than service them, offering [...] at least C$250,000 ($189,000) each to leave—and spurring a bitter, three-year fight over whether to cash out…

> I thought the reason was going to be related to the increment of sea levels

It's still probably a good test-case for that soon-to-be-more-common situation.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#117

Post by tjl » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 8:27 PM UTC

ersii wrote: post #104

dmix wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say anything about seniors needing to 'participate in society' after retirement. I specifically said "non-seniors" have no industry to participate in there... which makes economic sense to relocate them. My point related to seniors was related to the increased medical care costs required for remote poorly serviced communities. They don't even have a fire department...

I'd seriously be fine with that. I would not mind giving up all social services, especially not if I got a cashback. That said, I would expect this to come with 'no taxation in the future' as well. That said, I am not everybody.

Would you be seriously fine with the nearest grocery store being an hour away (over deteriorating roads) and it possibly being 3x as expensive? Plus, what are you going to do about garbage? People forget that is also a social service.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#118

Post by mason240 » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 8:30 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #69

guessmyname wrote: post #4

TL;DR — Fishing villages [...] sent into a tailspin by a fishery collapse, oil-price slump and mounting debt that left it with Canada’s most severe fiscal and demographic crisis. The provincial government now is pushing to close places like Little Bay Islands altogether rather than service them, offering [...] at least C$250,000 ($189,000) each to leave—and spurring a bitter, three-year fight over whether to cash out…

> some people with houses near the coast are retired, they just want to live a peaceful life near the sea, they don't want to relocate, What about social services? We have public health care in Canada and seniors are the most expensive. Plus, with no industry where are they going to get medication and food? And it's not all seniors, the person in the article isn't leaving because he scared he won't be able to find wo…

>What about social services?

This a pretty strong argument against social services. These people who have paid their share into society are now being to forced to move because it's convenient for the government.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#119

Post by tjl » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 8:31 PM UTC

allendoerfer wrote: post #115

greggarious wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American, so take what I say with a grain of salt... but maybe part of it is that Canada has a small population but a large land area. There's basically four major cities a Millenial would consider: Vancouver, Toronto, Monteal, and Ottawa. (And I've heard the latter crapped on even by Canadians.) Montreal is lovely, but if you're an Anglophone. Compare with the United States: New York is a large city, but I co…

What is holding people from Vancouver off to move to Portland?

Social services like health care, I'd assume.

Re: Can payments persuade Canadian residents to move away from dying villages?

#120

Post by mason240 » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 8:35 PM UTC

tjl wrote: post #117

ersii wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd seriously be fine with that. I would not mind giving up all social services, especially not if I got a cashback. That said, I would expect this to come with 'no taxation in the future' as well. That said, I am not everybody.

Would you be seriously fine with the nearest grocery store being an hour away (over deteriorating roads) and it possibly being 3x as expensive? Plus, what are you going to do about garbage? People forget that is also a social service.

If they are fine with the nearest store being an hour away, who are you to judge.

A tiny group can just burn garbage, or whoever is serving that town that's an hour away can have their truck spend 2 hours every other week to come pick it up.