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Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
11–20 of 224 posts
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hanjin doesn't own the goods; they're just transporting them. The owners of the goods are also by now creditors of the bankrupt company (for late fees if nothing else). That's why it's a snarl.
Wonder if it'd be feasible and/or make sense for the owners of the goods to pool their money together in order to pay the docking fees so they could receive their goods.
It'd be a neat resolution, but that's basically telling one set of creditors to make a second set of creditors whole out of their own pockets. And there's likely thousands of them with multiple layers: eg, your new iPhone 7 is stuck on one of these ships. Are you the owner, or is Apple? or Foxconn? etc.
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#13This seems like a really good sign. We can only hope global shipping continues to shrink until we can get down to a level of consumer purchasing that is sustainable for the ecology of the planet.
That's one way of looking at it. Of course, the more expensive shipping is, the less likely it is to ship inexpensive items, like food.
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#14Amazing that this happens on top of such low prices for crude oil. What's going on?
EDIT: Yes I read the article. Seriously, oil is so cheap and this still happened? It's just mind boggling to me.
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#15Amazing that this happens on top of such low prices for crude oil. What's going on? EDIT: Yes I read the article. Seriously, oil is so cheap and this still happened? It's just mind boggling to me.
You should read the article, it's exactly about the question you asked.
> Hanjin’s bankruptcy—and the abysmal performance of so many lines—is the result of overcapacity in the shipping industry. Since the financial crisis, too many vessels have been built and not enough scrapped, while the growth in global trade has decelerated.
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#16This bankruptcy means that companies shipping goods are no longer going to be able to treat shipping as a fungible commodity and instead are going to have to price in a risk component as well. That suggests that the largest and best financed players are likely to be able to command a premium which will accelerate losses at smaller players. This would increase the spreads further and create a viscous loop.
Does anybody have visibility into shipping rates to see if larger players are getting a bigger premium?
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#17This bankruptcy means that companies shipping goods are no longer going to be able to treat shipping as a fungible commodity and instead are going to have to price in a risk component as well. That suggests that the largest and best financed players are likely to be able to command a premium which will accelerate losses at smaller players. This would increase the spreads further and create a viscous loop. Does anybod…
Perhaps the largest might have the most debt too. It should be priced based on CDS spreads on the shippers, no?
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#18It'll be interesting to see this play out. If the bankrupt company is unwilling or unable to unload their cargo, could another company start repossessing the ships? I'd imagine it would have to on the behalf of several companies; likely, the most heavily invested insurance companies act as a group.
yes but that is the major fear the docks have. No debt holder is going to repossess a ship at sea they are going to wait for them to dock then file a court order to prevent them from undocking until the repossession proceedings finish. This means they are stuck at the dock taking up space the dock owners want to use to unload other ships so they just ban these ships from their docks letting another dock deal with it and basically every dock yard does the same thing so there is no where for them to dock
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#19Amazing that this happens on top of such low prices for crude oil. What's going on? EDIT: Yes I read the article. Seriously, oil is so cheap and this still happened? It's just mind boggling to me.
You should read the article, it's exactly about the question you asked. > Hanjin’s bankruptcy—and the abysmal performance of so many lines—is the result of overcapacity in the shipping industry. Since the financial crisis, too many vessels have been built and not enough scrapped, while the growth in global trade has decelerated.
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Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#20This seems like a really good sign. We can only hope global shipping continues to shrink until we can get down to a level of consumer purchasing that is sustainable for the ecology of the planet.
So your solution to sustainability is for everyone to just accept a lower quality of life? Yea, good luck with that.