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Why don't black and white Americans live together?

bbc.com

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Re: Why don't black and white Americans live together?

#61

Post by 13of40 »

jasode wrote: post #18

If you want to explore more areas than just the 4 cities in the article, this demographic map based on 2010 US Census data has a plot of race: http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/index.html (it's zoomable)

Just looking at the map, the ten mile radius around where I work seems like it's got several sharply segregated areas full of Asian people. From the ground, I know those areas are just apartment complexes where (highly skilled and not at all impoverished) Indian people on temporary work visas tend to stay, and most of them would probably be able to buy a house on my block if they intended to be here permanently. The west side of the city has some old-fashioned segregation, though.

Re: Why don't black and white Americans live together?

#62

Post by movengeance »

neaden wrote: post #17

Oak Park is a suburb next to Chicago that managed to integrate fairly well, but when reading how it happened I was struck at how draconian it was handled. They purposefully wanted an integrated city and tried to sotftly limit or "steer" how many Black people moved in, and to spread them throughout the whole city. There were restrictions on who could sell your home. For sale signs were banned even. They expanded the p…

WBEZ had a great article on the history of Oak Park's for-sale sign ban, and how it helped to shape the town's integration. The ban was effectively born to fight blockbusting, which preyed on homeowners' fears of loss of property values, but slathered with a nice greasy layer of racial fear. Blockbusting represents the scummiest sort of real estate profiteering; but more damagingly, it plays directly into patterns of institutional racism.

It's nearly unbelievable that something as simple as /not allowing the posting of For Sale signs/ can quell a lot of concerns about negative changes to the neighborhood.

https://www.wbez.org/shows/curious-city/not-in-your-front-ya...

Re: Why don't black and white Americans live together?

#63

Post by tkxxx7 »

coldtea wrote: post #32
smallnamespace wrote: post #31

All you need for self-segregation to occur is that individuals don't want to be a small minority in their local area. As people exercise that preference by moving around, they will create enclaves where certain groups dominate. http://nifty.stanford.edu/2014/mccown-schelling-model-segreg... http://www.citylab.com/design/2014/12/an-immersive-game-show...

> All you need for self-segregation to occur is that individuals don't want to be a small minority in their local area. If that was the case (or enough), we wouldn't have this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_steering and this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_segregation_in_the_Uni... I don't think many blacks care of being a "small minority" on a posh white neighborhood...

> I don't think many blacks care of being a "small minority" on a posh white neighborhood...

We do. Besides what a sibling has already mentioned regarding some small cultural difficulties, there's the whole "police killing us all the time" thing which is much less likely to happen if you're in an area where being black doesn't make you stand out

Re: Why don't black and white Americans live together?

#64

Post by jkaunisv1 »

bdamm wrote: post #43
ausjke wrote: post #23

it's more about economic status instead of colors? also there is some culture difference as well, “Birds of a feather flock together", maybe it's just natural and has nothing to do with the political pov.

Some places even embrace that approach. Canada, for example.

Ehn, we're pretty segregated too. You notice a big difference in racial distributions going to different malls and bus stations, especially outside of the downtown core (at least in the nation's capital where I live). Not to mention the white/indigenous divide that is particularly prominent in our prairie provinces. Winnipeg has a literal wrong side of the tracks.

Re: Why don't black and white Americans live together?

#65

Post by dismantlethesun »

neaden wrote: post #17

Oak Park is a suburb next to Chicago that managed to integrate fairly well, but when reading how it happened I was struck at how draconian it was handled. They purposefully wanted an integrated city and tried to sotftly limit or "steer" how many Black people moved in, and to spread them throughout the whole city. There were restrictions on who could sell your home. For sale signs were banned even. They expanded the p…

That's a fair assessment of how integration was handled in most schools too. On the face of it, its extremely draconian, but how can you reverse 50+ years of institutional segregation without the government becoming involved?

Re: Why don't black and white Americans live together?

#66

Post by mudil »

Tribalism is a natural human condition (maybe it's an instinct, I don't know). It's integral part of us. Comes from evolution, really. Everybody hates everybody. Heck, Russians and Ukrainians hate each other, and you wouldn't find more similar groups of people. (I am from Ukraine.) To deny human tribalism is to deny reality. We need to fight tribalism and hatred but unfortunately it's not going away.

So, the question is why we constantly hear about one minority but not the others? After all, we have people of all colors and origins in America from Chinese and Indian, to Russian and Samoan.

My feeling is that blacks have been highjacked by politicos and turned into pawn for political games. And the result is that children and families suffer. How is it not failure of political science that 72% of black kids are born to single mothers? Blame Republicans all you want, but blacks are represented by the Democrats on all levels of government, from city to state to Congress. How is it not a failure of representation?

I think if we get politicos from dividing us, everyone will benefit, especially blacks.

Re: Why don't black and white Americans live together?

#67

Post by mudil »

Tribalism is a natural human condition (maybe it's an instinct, I don't know). It's integral part of us. Comes from evolution, really. Everybody hates everybody. Heck, Russians and Ukrainians hate each other, and you wouldn't find more similar groups of people. (I am from Ukraine.) To deny human tribalism is to deny reality. We need to fight tribalism and hatred but unfortunately it's not going away.

So, the question is why we constantly hear about one minority but not the others? After all, we have people of all colors and origins in America from Chinese and Indian, to Russian and Samoan.

My feeling is that blacks have been highjacked by politicos and turned into pawn for political games. And the result is that children and families suffer. How is it not failure of political science that 72% of black kids are born to single mothers? Blame Republicans all you want, but blacks are represented by the Democrats on all levels of government, from city to state to Congress. How is it not a failure of representation?

I think if we get politicos from dividing us, everyone will benefit, especially blacks.

Re: Why don't black and white Americans live together?

#68

Post by neaden »

dismantlethesun wrote: post #65
neaden wrote: post #17

Oak Park is a suburb next to Chicago that managed to integrate fairly well, but when reading how it happened I was struck at how draconian it was handled. They purposefully wanted an integrated city and tried to sotftly limit or "steer" how many Black people moved in, and to spread them throughout the whole city. There were restrictions on who could sell your home. For sale signs were banned even. They expanded the p…

That's a fair assessment of how integration was handled in most schools too. On the face of it, its extremely draconian, but how can you reverse 50+ years of institutional segregation without the government becoming involved?

I'm not sure if there is another way. It's a worthy goal, and I'm not opposed to the government being involved. The part that seems the most questionable to me was the steering of Black families to not live next to each other, spreading them out in the city. I understand why it was done but it just seems so controlling and paternalistic.

Re: Why don't black and white Americans live together?

#69

Post by dismantlethesun »

neaden wrote: post #68
dismantlethesun wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair assessment of how integration was handled in most schools too. On the face of it, its extremely draconian, but how can you reverse 50+ years of institutional segregation without the government becoming involved?

I'm not sure if there is another way. It's a worthy goal, and I'm not opposed to the government being involved. The part that seems the most questionable to me was the steering of Black families to not live next to each other, spreading them out in the city. I understand why it was done but it just seems so controlling and paternalistic.

That's how desegregation of schools occurred---bussing black children to far off neighbourhoods. It was paternalistic, but I think it was less looked down upon because it acted on actual children instead of adults.

Re: Why don't black and white Americans live together?

#70

Post by redwards510 »

mudil wrote: post #66

Tribalism is a natural human condition (maybe it's an instinct, I don't know). It's integral part of us. Comes from evolution, really. Everybody hates everybody. Heck, Russians and Ukrainians hate each other, and you wouldn't find more similar groups of people. (I am from Ukraine.) To deny human tribalism is to deny reality. We need to fight tribalism and hatred but unfortunately it's not going away. So, the question…

Yes, I don't understand the logic of how people can push identity politics and yet also be against racism/segregation.
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