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The Age of the Superbug Is Here

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Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#121

Post by ocschwar »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #32
naz wrote: post #29

Very naive question: won't bacteria lose their resistance after a while? What if we cycle certain antibiotics on an annual basis? When we reintroduce them, they'll be more powerful. Right?

I was chatting to doctor friend recently who has a masters in this area and he said that in theory yes but it would likely require the bacteria to have a reason to loose the mutation that caused the resistance in the first place so there is no guarantee.

The reason is there: bacteria have to be stingy in how much DNA they devote to anything.

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#122

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

grhino wrote: post #60
biesnecker wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing video. Question that comes to mind is how easy would it be to take the bacteria that make it to the center, and put them on a new plate with a different antibiotic in the same configuration, and then repeat until you've gone through all available antibiotics, then scoop that last batch up and do something really nasty with it? It must be harder than it seems, because otherwise why do terrorists and the like e…

Bioweapons are hard to deploy in a targeted fashion. Also, development of an antibiotic resistant bacteria that would be truly dangerous to a population requires great care during development not to kill those doing the development themselves. Also, I think we tend to overestimate the resources available to terrorists.

> to kill those doing the development themselves

Maybe that's considered a noble sacrifice, but I don't know what they think.

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#123

Post by hx87 »

zdkl wrote: post #89
mercutio2 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need to meet the current demand for meat. If meat was our only food source, then perhaps this syllogism you've drawn would be true. But in reality, meat is an inefficient form of producing food, with complements humans can easily shift to. So the way you get less antibiotic use in livestock in a capitalist decision market is by reducing the demand for livestock. Taxes do a great job at reducing demand.

Maybe my pun about meet/meat confused you but the problem definitely isn't limited to meat production. You should see the quantites of pesticides/fertilisers/treatment agents used in the extensive culture of plants. The question holds, if you don't intend to back current production levels that are only possible through over intensive exploitation to the detriment of the product and it's growing medium, what alternati…

We could meet food demand with quite a bit less production if we ate lower on the food chain, improved transportation infrastructure and reduced waste. People don't go hungry because farmers don't produce enough food, not today; people go hungry because some people don't get enough allocation of resources and/or transportation infrastructure is crappy.

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#124

Post by aidenn0 »

DiffEq wrote: post #100
barrkel wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent is talking about a virus; the wikipedia article talks about a bacterium. Can you explain further what it is refuting and how?

The article focus, and my focus, is a about how or if there is actual evolution occurring within DNA. It is separate and apart from the organism in question. My point is that almost everybody these days mixes up evolution and natural selection when they are two very distinct things.

All forms of selection that differ from the current equilibrium cause evolution in a group that is either sufficiently diverse group (assuming HGT or sexual reproduction) or has a sufficiently high mutation rate.

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#125

Post by hx87 »

zdkl wrote: post #90
crimsonalucard wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the presses! I have discovered an alternative method of killing all bacteria on all forms of meat! It involves putting said meat under extreme temperatures thereby killing all microbes! I shall call this brand new method: Cooking!

I spy with my little eye someone who'd die early, in a world without antibiotics. Some contaminations can't be washed or cooked away (Staphylococcus aureus, some Clostridiums...). And there are a lot of ways to mess up and contaminate an otherwise perfectly fine sample.

If the animal is sick enough to make you sick when you eat it, it would have died long before it reached the slaughterhouse. What you'd see without agricultural prophylactic antibiotics, at worst, would be occasional mass die-offs and spikes in meat prices. So instead of chicken always being $5/lb, it would be $5/lb most of the time and $50/lb when the die-offs happen.

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#126

Post by hx87 »

arethuza wrote: post #8
zdkl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think paying more for your food will make bacteria stop reacting to selective pressure? Or do you think we can stop relying on 'organic' food?(in the biochemical sense, not the hippie meaning) Either way I've got some bad news for you

If the choice is cheap meat or antibiotics (and yes I know it's not quite that simple) then I'll take antibiotics.

I thought the choice was between expensive meat or antibiotics, or between cheap meat and /no/ antibiotics?

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#127

Post by hx87 »

sageabilly wrote: post #63
sten wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meat is a luxury.

Yup. I am an avid meat eater, love BBQ, all of the food I cook has meat in it- but I am absolutely aware that it is a luxury. I do my absolute best to buy higher quality meat as close to pasture raised as I can get... but I don't make that final leap to source out local farmers and buy directly from them to ensure that I know exactly how the meat I'm eating is raised. But at the end of the day, not everyone can affor…

> I don't think society as a whole could deal with the cost of meat

We certainly could if we had to, but so far we haven't had to.

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#128

Post by orly_bookz »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #74
arethuza wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think swimming pools are that sterile: "“It doesn’t matter if it’s fresh water or a chlorinated pool,” Gibbons said. “There are bugs and pathogens that chlorine doesn’t kill, which could potentially cause damage to the cornea, infection or ulcers.” http://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2015/07/07141...

Perhaps some bugs are evolving resistance to chlorine?

I assume it's possible.

They can't really become resistant to high concentrations of cleaning products like chlorine bleach because they just physically ruin the organism - the best explanation I've heard is that that would be "like a human becoming resistant to lava." Not gonna happen.

But in really low concentrations like in a pool, perhaps they could resist the oxidation effects...

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#129

Post by hx87 »

forgetsusername wrote: post #12
arethuza wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the choice is cheap meat or antibiotics (and yes I know it's not quite that simple) then I'll take antibiotics.

> If the choice is cheap meat or antibiotics Easy to say when you're wealthy, no so much when you consider yourself healthy but poor.

When I was poor, I didn't eat meat. If I am ever poor again I would go vegetarian. Cheap meat just isn't worth it.

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#130

Post by robbiep »

rufius wrote: post #77
rm2889 wrote: post #68

I live in India and despite some improvements, the level of antibiotic abuse here is shocking. They're available over the counter and people self-medicate with antibiotics all the time. The attitude is, "if my sore throat doesn't go away in a couple of days, its time to take antibiotics. No point in going to the doc coz they'll prescribe antibiotics too and this way I save money." People self-medicating on antibiotic…

I'd imagine it's not much different in Central and South America based on my travels. You can walk into any pharmacy and show them the word "amoxicillin" and they'll give you a 2 week course. Edit: a word

Even the EU is bad - Spain and Portugal allow OTC antibiotics (along with many Asian countries)
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