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Oracle’s Cloudy Future

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Re: Oracle’s Cloudy Future

#31
post #21

Oracle has brought top talent from Amazon and MS, including Deepak Patil who launched Microsoft Azure: http://agetimes.net/tech/enterprise/this-is-how-oracle-lured...

The first versions of Azure were a disaster. It took a good 4 years for MS to turn it around. So whoever this Deepak Patil fellow is - I wouldn't place him in high regard.

Re: Oracle’s Cloudy Future

#32
Good article, but misses the point on Oracle's risk against AWS. Understandable as Ben is more focused on consumer stuff.

Oracle's main money maker is their database product. Running on prem, collecting money through license and maintenance contracts. The more DB installs out there, the better.

Salesforce uses Oracle for their backend. But here's the rub - as a SFDC customer, I do not care which DB is running below it. And I don't need an DB in itself anymore. I have my customer data in my CRM, and runs in SFDC datacenters. SFDC is the largest known user of Oracle DB, but it is abstracting away the raw DB product from enterprise users. Like any other SaaS product does.

Which means the total number of ORA DBs will shrink, massively. Hence Oracle buying business apps left and right with all that DB money, to augment the sellable stack. Oracle is the elephant graveyeard of enterprise software, in CRM alone they acquired 5-6 different solutions and still sell a bunch of those (Siebel, Oracle CRM, Oracle OnDemand, Fusion, Peoplesoft, etc.).

SFDC has announced a big move onto AWS, getting away from running their own datacenters - they're moving upstream, going after the business end users. The underlying tech is a commodity, plumbing, invisible.

And what happens to price points of commodities? bye bye fat margin DB business...

Re: Oracle’s Cloudy Future

#33
To summarize other comments:

If you are running a Fortune 1000 IT group, you'd be a fool not to use Oracle; if you are running a startup, you'd be a fool to use Oracle.

It's a pain to create something using Oracle. But it's just there :-(

Re: Oracle’s Cloudy Future

#34
post #23

What a lot of these analysts overlook is why Oracle is trying to take on Amazon, despite being years late to the party. I believe it's a defensive move: Oracle is seeing long-time customers deploy new applications in AWS, and that customer starts to realize, "hey, that went pretty well, why not move more of my stuff to AWS?" Their Oracle sales rep comes calling, and suddenly a once-reliable customer needs fewer Oracl…

> why Oracle is trying to take on Amazon, despite being years late to the party. I believe it's a defensive move Ellison is all about the money. When "the cloud" started, he quietly bankrolled a bunch of companies spearheading the space, so he didn't have to risk his cash-cow. Once the space was proven, he's steered the whole company - and he didn't do it yesterday, he's done it about 6 years ago. You're seeing resul…

Oracle selling higher-end products as a service makes total sense, and I agree, the subscription model has potential to make them a good deal of money. What I'm getting at, however, is why are they so aggressively taking on Amazon in the IaaS space? That's the part which doesn't make sense on the surface--they show up late and then attempt to compete on price. Since when has Oracle competed on price?

The conclusion I come to is that Amazon must be eating away at their customer base. Once a customer starts to move some of their IT into AWS, and it goes well, that puts Oracle on the defensive--not a spot they like to be in.

I doubt Oracle really wants to be in the IaaS business just for the sake of IaaS. They want to focus on higher-margin services. The IaaS part must be a defensive move to keep customers away from AWS and within the Oracle ecosystem.

Re: Oracle’s Cloudy Future

#35

A genuine question: If you have worked with any fortune 500/1000 companies (Lets pick non software based companies) either directly or if they are your customers, how many of them use Oracle database or SQL Server? Some of the reasons why this trend WILL continue: 1. Critical software like databases needs support. To the point where there should be someone who can come on premise to fix things. 2. We need to use X be…

I work for a Fortune 1000, and we have production DB2, Oracle, SQL Server, PostgreSQL, MySQL, Access, and an old IBM mini computer...

Re: Oracle’s Cloudy Future

#36
(long time ex-Oracle employee ... take with whatever size grain of salt you wish :-)

As the article mentions, Oracle aims primarily at its own installed-base, which limits how much "innovation" they can do .. can't piss-off the paying customers! Their world-view is incredibly narrow ... years ago they discovered that even though they have millions of paying customers, there is a core of only about 5000 customers that they really need to listen to.

Oracle should look carefully at IBM's recent moves within the Cloud eco-system: instead of offering the AWS-style "everything-including-the-kitchen-sink", IBM's purchase of 'The Weather Network's big-data division has lead them to offer high-level cloud-APIs for dealing with weather data without the need to put it all together (S3+SQS+DynamoDB+EMR...)

Re: Oracle’s Cloudy Future

#37
post #24
post #21

Oracle has brought top talent from Amazon and MS, including Deepak Patil who launched Microsoft Azure: http://agetimes.net/tech/enterprise/this-is-how-oracle-lured...

What a terrible article, and written in such layman language: "it comes as “bare metal,” a attention tenure for servers with no program installed"

Something about it makes me think it was poorly translated into English.

Re: Oracle’s Cloudy Future

#38

A genuine question: If you have worked with any fortune 500/1000 companies (Lets pick non software based companies) either directly or if they are your customers, how many of them use Oracle database or SQL Server? Some of the reasons why this trend WILL continue: 1. Critical software like databases needs support. To the point where there should be someone who can come on premise to fix things. 2. We need to use X be…

I'd say MS SQL is better than not that bad. It's an excellent product. One of Microsoft's best. It's generally comparable to PostgreSQL (also an excellent piece of software), and has a few advantages over that which may make it worth the extra cost to a business (Management Studio, Reporting Services and clustering).

Re: Oracle’s Cloudy Future

#39
I guess this is an off topic question, but shouldn't the example of the Hierarchical Database show Customer as the Root and Order as the Parent and Books as the Child?

I guess it makes sense if the query is "Show me all the Orders in the system".

Re: Oracle’s Cloudy Future

#40
However, there were two big limitations with hierarchical databases: first, relationships were pre-determined; what was a parent and what was a child was a decision made before any data was actually entered

Well, yes and no. IMS was developed for bill-of-materials processing, which is a kind of thing you do in engineering to keep track of all the parts in your thing you're building. It was first used for the Saturn V rocket. At or at least near the top level you would have things like "a booster" and at the bottom level you would have something like "a bolt", "a nut", "a washer". There was no conceivable case in which you'd want to make a bolt out of boosters so having these relationships pre-determined wasn't actually a "limitation" at all, in the sense that it would never, ever stop a user of the system doing what they needed to do with it.

Secondly, queries analyzing the children of different parents are impractical: you would need to traverse the hierarchy to retrieve information for every potential item

The sort of query you'd do with this system would be, I want to make a rocket engine, what exactly do I need to order and how many of them, I want to give this piece of the work to this group, do they have all the parts they need in their inventory, and so on and so on. So that's not really an unreasonable sort of query if you are managing an inventory of parts and the processes that make them into ever bigger parts until finally you have your very top level parent "a moon mission".

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