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The Age of the Superbug Is Here

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Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#71

Post by gph »

biesnecker wrote: post #52
lossolo wrote: post #6

This is an amazing video[1] from Harvard Medical School released couple of days ago showing evolution of bacteria that evolve in 10 days to become resistant to antibiotics. [1] https://youtu.be/plVk4NVIUh8

Amazing video. Question that comes to mind is how easy would it be to take the bacteria that make it to the center, and put them on a new plate with a different antibiotic in the same configuration, and then repeat until you've gone through all available antibiotics, then scoop that last batch up and do something really nasty with it? It must be harder than it seems, because otherwise why do terrorists and the like e…

>why do terrorists and the like even bother with (seemingly much harder to obtain, though admittedly flashier) chemical and nuclear weapons?

What terrorists are you talking about? Seems to me like 99% of terrorists use regular weapons I.E. explosives, guns, and knives.

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#72

Post by DonaldFisk »

DiffEq wrote: post #66
DonaldFisk wrote: post #49

The article mentions phage therapy in passing, and links to this Nature article: http://www.nature.com/news/phage-therapy-gets-revitalized-1.... The Nature article hints that the main barrier to adoption is that it's difficult to for pharmaceutical companies to make a profit out of phage therapy: the cure is entirely natural, bacteriophage are the most common organisms on the planet, they reproduce very quickly, and…

You used the word "evolve" - I don't think this means what you think it means. Evolving means that positive mutations are occurring that assist these organisms; what is really happening is Natural Selection; where already present genetic capabilities are being favored and those populations are thus surviving.

Mutations occur in bacteriophage. Those mutant bacteriophage which can attack previously resistant bacteria are then selected for and become more prevalent.

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#73

Post by gambiting »

DonaldFisk wrote: post #49

The article mentions phage therapy in passing, and links to this Nature article: http://www.nature.com/news/phage-therapy-gets-revitalized-1.... The Nature article hints that the main barrier to adoption is that it's difficult to for pharmaceutical companies to make a profit out of phage therapy: the cure is entirely natural, bacteriophage are the most common organisms on the planet, they reproduce very quickly, and…

I think the problem with making profit out of it is that it's very time consuming(read - expensive) process, which has to be tailored to every person individually. In theory, a phage therapy could save someone who doesn't react to any other antibiotics, but the therapy would need to be prepared specifically for that one person. At least that's what I read about this.

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#74

Post by crimsonalucard »

arethuza wrote: post #19
nkozyra wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wearing contacts most of my life and have never heard said warning. Given pools are typically fairly sterile, I'm not sure if understand it. Now freshwater lakes or oceans under certain conditions I could understand

I don't think swimming pools are that sterile: "“It doesn’t matter if it’s fresh water or a chlorinated pool,” Gibbons said. “There are bugs and pathogens that chlorine doesn’t kill, which could potentially cause damage to the cornea, infection or ulcers.” http://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2015/07/07141...

Perhaps some bugs are evolving resistance to chlorine?

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#75

Post by DonaldFisk »

slv77 wrote: post #69
DonaldFisk wrote: post #49

The article mentions phage therapy in passing, and links to this Nature article: http://www.nature.com/news/phage-therapy-gets-revitalized-1.... The Nature article hints that the main barrier to adoption is that it's difficult to for pharmaceutical companies to make a profit out of phage therapy: the cure is entirely natural, bacteriophage are the most common organisms on the planet, they reproduce very quickly, and…

Each bacteriophage typically targets just one or at most few types of bacteria. The targeted treatment in many ways is an advantage because a phage treatment to target a pathogen wouldn't also wipe out the symbiotic bacteria that we are increasing finding act as part of our natural defense mechanism against pathogens. The challenge for drug companies is that they would need to isolate and get regulatory approval for…

Other than the last paragraph, the problems you mention are a market failure, which can be dealt with by having all aspects of phage therapy carried out within a government-owned health service, rather than by privately owned pharmaceutical companies.

It's worth noting that phage therapy was successfully used in the Soviet Union, and is still used in Georgia where the phage was "farmed", and that attempts to commercialize it have (as far as I know) invariably failed.

The clinical problems in administration of phage therapy to patients you mention are well-known and limit their use somewhat. But phage therapy could still be a valuable addition in the fight against pathogenic bacteria, rather than a replacement for antibiotics, which are more convenient, and work very well most of the time.

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#76

Post by crimsonalucard »

zdkl wrote: post #48
nebula wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand what he meant: Heavy use of antibiotics in diary and poultry industry is a significant factor contributing to drug resistant bacteria. In other words, these industries are actively providing the selection pressure you referring here.

Well the selection environment is a requirement to not getting sick from eating the products. You can't just have a nice chat with the microbe unions and ask them to behave and stay off the meat...

To the presses! I have discovered an alternative method of killing all bacteria on all forms of meat! It involves putting said meat under extreme temperatures thereby killing all microbes!

I shall call this brand new method: Cooking!

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#77

Post by rufius »

rm2889 wrote: post #68

I live in India and despite some improvements, the level of antibiotic abuse here is shocking. They're available over the counter and people self-medicate with antibiotics all the time. The attitude is, "if my sore throat doesn't go away in a couple of days, its time to take antibiotics. No point in going to the doc coz they'll prescribe antibiotics too and this way I save money." People self-medicating on antibiotic…

I'd imagine it's not much different in Central and South America based on my travels. You can walk into any pharmacy and show them the word "amoxicillin" and they'll give you a 2 week course.

Edit: a word

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#79

Post by crimsonalucard »

naz wrote: post #29

Very naive question: won't bacteria lose their resistance after a while? What if we cycle certain antibiotics on an annual basis? When we reintroduce them, they'll be more powerful. Right?

True. Unused traits that are not maintained with selection pressure begin accumulating random mutations. The eventual outcome is the complete disappearance of said trait.

The downside to this is that the process of losing a trait is much more slower than gaining a trait. Think about it: Natural selection is a targeted process where by favored traits are directly selected and built up. Thus each generation gets a step closer towards a final selected outcome.

On the other hand, losing a trait involves one waiting for random mutations to basically destroy the trait by random chance, no direct selection is involved. By probability the complete destruction of a trait not maintained under selection pressure will eventually occur given enough time.

It is however basically comparing a blind folded dart game with a dart game that isn't blind folded. Hitting the center of the board in the blind folded game will take much longer than the other game but the center of the board will always eventually be hit given enough turns.

We have seen experiments (and the recent amazing video) of bacteria evolving resistance to antibiotics. Does anyone know of any research that studies the length of time it takes for these bacteria to lose a trait?

Re: The Age of the Superbug Is Here

#80

Post by DonaldFisk »

gambiting wrote: post #73
DonaldFisk wrote: post #49

The article mentions phage therapy in passing, and links to this Nature article: http://www.nature.com/news/phage-therapy-gets-revitalized-1.... The Nature article hints that the main barrier to adoption is that it's difficult to for pharmaceutical companies to make a profit out of phage therapy: the cure is entirely natural, bacteriophage are the most common organisms on the planet, they reproduce very quickly, and…

I think the problem with making profit out of it is that it's very time consuming(read - expensive) process, which has to be tailored to every person individually. In theory, a phage therapy could save someone who doesn't react to any other antibiotics, but the therapy would need to be prepared specifically for that one person. At least that's what I read about this.

Phages are easier to manufacture, and more expensive to deliver, than antibiotics.

They target very specific bacteria. Instead of identifying the bacterial strain (which if I'm not mistaken is done using phages), a cocktail of phages would be administered. Even if that doesn't work, finding a strain of bacteriophage from the environment which does kill the bacteria would still be quicker than developing a new antibiotic.

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