Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

rameznaam.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 95 posts

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#71

Post by zdkl »

aaron695 wrote: post #66
alex_duf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call that storage though, it's more of an efficient way of buying energy on a grid market.

I'd call it a battery. You are storing energy in a form (cleaned water) for later use. Unlike a manufacturer or other businesses which can't just hire people overnight/ramp up during the day. I do agree the reversal process is convoluted and not really chemistry. Sell the water = money energy

That's not necessarily true, if you're the Sheikh and you own the power plants. You may have more money but you're still the only provider in town, and have fun cashing in energy when demand hits an external spike already.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#72

Post by raverbashing »

mrfusion wrote: post #64
raverbashing wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, losses are lower with a higher voltage (which for HVDC are around 100kV/1MV - in orders of magnitude) However doing it on terrain is much easier than doing it under the ocean

Why easier. You just drop it on the floor. You don't need land right s or towers to build.

Isolating 100kV is not trivial

That's why we need big towers

When you can't use towers (on land) you have all kinds of special isolation techniques

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#73

Post by ahazred8ta »

merraksh wrote: post #53

Previous discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12537649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11627965

https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=rameznaam.com

  > How Cheap Can Electric Vehicles Get? (rameznaam.com)

  > How Cheap Can Energy Storage Get? (rameznaam.com)

  > How Cheap Can Solar Get? (rameznaam.com)

  > Why Energy Storage Is About to Get Big – And Cheap (rameznaam.com)
Is anybody seeing a pattern? :-(

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#74

Post by pjc50 »

qoobaa wrote: post #49
tomarr wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HVDC is High Voltage DC , therefore grids aren't really important. The bigger issues are losses and costs

The question was if it's possible to use someone's else electricity when the sun isn't shining in your place. While it's technically possible and in many cases economically reasonable, you probably won't see countries giving up their electricity production and importing power from overseas - the main reason is politics.

you probably won't see countries giving up their electricity production and importing power from overseas - the main reason is politics.

Importing a whole country's power consumption is probably a bit much in terms of required infrastructure (except for the microstates which already do this), but smaller links are already present and make economic sense. I don't think the politics of energy security are an obstacle if the price is right.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#75

Post by pjc50 »

Annatar wrote: post #3

This whole machination thing will collapse as soon as the solar panel prices, along with the inverter and battery costs drop low enough to be part of every house. Once everyone generates and stores their own electricity, the residential market will go away. This might be another 20 to 30 years off, but it is inevitable. And once factories start building Stirling engines and solar facilities into their designs, the in…

I don't think the grid is going away any time soon, but its pricing structure could well change to reflect the new realities.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#76

Post by pjc50 »

visarga wrote: post #40
CptJamesCook wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar doesn't really compete with oil. It competes with coal, natural gas, and nuclear power to power homes.

Why can't solar be used to capture CO2 and produce fuel?

https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/01/uic-solar-co2-fuel/

Last time I saw a electricity to fuel system with a price attached, it was the US Navy's one which could produce gasoline at $6/USgal. Not competitive unless you're in the middle of the sea, which is their intended use case.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#77

Post by pjc50 »

Annatar wrote: post #68
jerven wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any of the moving parts e.g. mechanical to electrical converter, the 2 axis point solar tracker.

And you believe that a solar panel would last longer and be cheaper than a Stirling solar power plant? Based on which data?

One of these is currently commercially widely available, installed on roofs, and halving in cost seemingly every 18-24 months. The other one isn't.

I don't doubt that Stirling systems could be cheaper, but I'm not seeing them yet. I also flatly refuse to believe that a moving-parts system can last 25 years without maintenance, even if just regular oiling, while solar panels should still have 70-80% of their output after 25 years with no maintenance. It's the inverters and batteries that require maintenance or replacement.

(There are claims that solar thermal storage + Stirling is cheaper than PV+batteries, which are much more plausible, but where are the installations, big or small?)

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#78

Post by toomuchtodo »

icebraining wrote: post #56
ekianjo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know where you live but in 3 different countries where i have lived till now the electricity bill was never high enough for me to take it in account for the choice of a place.

In Portugal you can get a 2 bedroom condo for 300€/month, but a family of three can easily pay 50€/month in electricity alone.

Where at in Portugal? Curious so I can take notes as part of my "places I'd like to live for a bit around the world" notebook.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#79

Post by patall »

Xylakant wrote: post #45
narrator wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another great thing about Abu Dhabi and solar is that they can use the extra solar power during the day to ramp up water desalination and store energy as clean water.

There's a lot of demand that can be shifted to high-power periods, basically anything that requires heat/cold. Modern insulation is fairly good and we do have a lot of liquids with a high thermal capacity. Generating warm water for buildings and cold coolant for aircons during peak power production would be technologically feasible, it just doesn't pay off currently since the power production curve is essentially fla…

While I primarily agree, the problem from a more long term prospective is not intra-day balancing but between summer and winter. Every place that is not near to the equator gets less sun in the time of the year when there is more need for electricity. While there are some concepts with liquid salt etc., it becomes much harder to store such large amounts of energy for long periods.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#80

Post by icebraining »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #78
icebraining wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Portugal you can get a 2 bedroom condo for 300€/month, but a family of three can easily pay 50€/month in electricity alone.

Where at in Portugal? Curious so I can take notes as part of my "places I'd like to live for a bit around the world" notebook.

Almost anywhere! The only exceptions are the more touristic centres, like the Algarve coast or Lisbon itself, but even there you can find those prices right across the river.
Post reply on HN