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New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

rameznaam.com

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Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#61

Post by jahnu »

Xylakant wrote: post #45
narrator wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another great thing about Abu Dhabi and solar is that they can use the extra solar power during the day to ramp up water desalination and store energy as clean water.

There's a lot of demand that can be shifted to high-power periods, basically anything that requires heat/cold. Modern insulation is fairly good and we do have a lot of liquids with a high thermal capacity. Generating warm water for buildings and cold coolant for aircons during peak power production would be technologically feasible, it just doesn't pay off currently since the power production curve is essentially fla…

Aluminium production is already typically sited near hydro-power stations.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#62

Post by mrfusion »

pavanred wrote: post #25

May be a noob question, but if we can lay down cables for internet across the ocean floor connecting the entire world, why not lay down cables to connect all electricity grids. Half the earth always faces the sun. We shouldn't need batteries at all then, right? And we always have the traditional power stations (renewable and non-renewable) to augment the load. (At least in theory?)

Great idea. Another factor an engineer told me about high voltage power lines is that they could send way more power through them but the limiting factor is heat. The lines start sagging.

But on the ocean floor the cold water could keep the lines cool.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#63

Post by Brakenshire »

known wrote: post #50

I heard that with latest solar panels we can convert 30% light to electricity;

You can get to much higher efficiency, but it involves very expensive manufacturing techniques which make the final cost much higher per unit of electricity. IIRC price-competitive silicon panels are now somewhere about 18-23% efficient, CdTe panels somewhat less.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#64

Post by mrfusion »

raverbashing wrote: post #38
qoobaa wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me quote Ramez Naam here: Transmission costs money, but less than many believe. The cost of high voltage DC (HVDC) transmission lines is roughly 1 cents per kwh for 500 miles, or 1.5 cents per kwh for 1,000 miles transmitted. Over 1,000 miles, an HVDC line may lose 5% or so of the electricity it transmits. I don't consider 5% per 1000 miles an "absurd" amount.

Yes, losses are lower with a higher voltage (which for HVDC are around 100kV/1MV - in orders of magnitude) However doing it on terrain is much easier than doing it under the ocean

Why easier. You just drop it on the floor. You don't need land right s or towers to build.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#65

Post by mrfusion »

qoobaa wrote: post #31
raverbashing wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because power losses will be absurd (unless you manage to find a room-temperature superconductor) Pretty simple math, if you cable has 1 Ohm/km then the distance between the Northeastern most point in Canada to Ireland is around 3000 km (or 3x10E6m) So suppose you have this very long extension cord, plug it on Canada (100V there to help the math) and plug a lamp on Ireland (an old incandescent 100W bulb, because it d…

Let me quote Ramez Naam here: Transmission costs money, but less than many believe. The cost of high voltage DC (HVDC) transmission lines is roughly 1 cents per kwh for 500 miles, or 1.5 cents per kwh for 1,000 miles transmitted. Over 1,000 miles, an HVDC line may lose 5% or so of the electricity it transmits. I don't consider 5% per 1000 miles an "absurd" amount.

And couldn't we up the voltage even higher for vey long distances?

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#66

Post by aaron695 »

alex_duf wrote: post #60
narrator wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another great thing about Abu Dhabi and solar is that they can use the extra solar power during the day to ramp up water desalination and store energy as clean water.

I wouldn't call that storage though, it's more of an efficient way of buying energy on a grid market.

I'd call it a battery.

You are storing energy in a form (cleaned water) for later use.

Unlike a manufacturer or other businesses which can't just hire people overnight/ramp up during the day.

I do agree the reversal process is convoluted and not really chemistry.

Sell the water = money energy

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#67

Post by magoon »

If the price is dropping so rapidly, this makes a bad deal out of the 30-year loans solar installers are pitching in the US. Furthermore, if fossil-fuel-sourced kilowatt-hours compete by pricing downward, and thus pay solar owners less per kWh, it could make solar seem like a bad deal.

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#68

Post by Annatar »

jerven wrote: post #37
Annatar wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing stirling engines to panels -> Panels are so much simpler they will perform better for any domestic and even industrial use. Maintenance is a driving cost in getting these prices down, mechanicals tend to have much higher maintenance requirements. What exactly needs maintenance in a Stirling engine? Please be concrete.

Any of the moving parts e.g. mechanical to electrical converter, the 2 axis point solar tracker.

And you believe that a solar panel would last longer and be cheaper than a Stirling solar power plant?

Based on which data?

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#69

Post by pjc50 »

qoobaa wrote: post #28
pavanred wrote: post #25

May be a noob question, but if we can lay down cables for internet across the ocean floor connecting the entire world, why not lay down cables to connect all electricity grids. Half the earth always faces the sun. We shouldn't need batteries at all then, right? And we always have the traditional power stations (renewable and non-renewable) to augment the load. (At least in theory?)

It's a very good question. I always thought that it's because of technical difficulties when transmitting electricity over long distances, but it turns out we already do it well (HVDC). When you think about it on a continent scale: why not move all PV panels from Germany to sunnier regions of Europe like Spain or Portugal where you can generate twice more power with them (in average 200 W/m² instead of 100 W/m²). The…

In threads like this I always like to promote Gridwatch: http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

While there isn't a complete grid, the UK has connections to Ireland, the Netherlands and France, enabling a bit more balancing. You can see the UK is currently running on 60% CCGT and 25% nuclear, although the 10GW solar capacity can't be shown because there's no central real-time metering for it. That's quite an impressive amount given the total (net of solar) demand is 30GW. Two and a half "Drax" worth of power, invisibly distributed around the country!

Re: New Record Low Solar Price in Abu Dhabi – Costs Plunging Faster Than Expected

#70

Post by the_other »

qoobaa wrote: post #49
tomarr wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HVDC is High Voltage DC , therefore grids aren't really important. The bigger issues are losses and costs

The question was if it's possible to use someone's else electricity when the sun isn't shining in your place. While it's technically possible and in many cases economically reasonable, you probably won't see countries giving up their electricity production and importing power from overseas - the main reason is politics.

We need to get over this. Let's find better politicians.
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