WhatsApp threatened with legal action in Germany over Facebook data sharing deal • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp threatened with legal action in Germany over Facebook data sharing deal

#61

Post by kuschku » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 6:22 PM UTC

codethief wrote: post #49

unicornporn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wire[1] is also an excellent option. Unlike Open Whisper Systems they wont hang you from a tree for building a third party app. Signal wont work without Gapps or Google Play Services on your Android phone and Google Chrome for desktop. [1] https://wire.com/

Signal does work with MicroG ( https://microg.org/ ), an open source reimplementation of Google Play Services.

But that still requires using the Google Play Services library in the Signal APK, still doing analytics.

Re: WhatsApp threatened with legal action in Germany over Facebook data sharing deal

#62

Post by kuschku » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 6:23 PM UTC

codethief wrote: post #48

lmm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is pseudo-open-source but will not allow you to use it except via the closed-source google play services, so I still wouldn't have confidence in it.

This is incorrect. There is an open source reimplementation of Google Play Services ( https://microg.org/ ) and Signal works beautifully with it.

So the Signal APK does NOT depend on the Google Cloud Messaging library anymore, which pulls in 40k LOC of analytics?

Re: WhatsApp threatened with legal action in Germany over Facebook data sharing deal

#63

Post by claudius » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 6:26 PM UTC

codethief wrote: post #48

lmm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is pseudo-open-source but will not allow you to use it except via the closed-source google play services, so I still wouldn't have confidence in it.

This is incorrect. There is an open source reimplementation of Google Play Services ( https://microg.org/ ) and Signal works beautifully with it.

And wherefrom can you get Signal except for the Google Play store? I was looking for it a while ago to install on my phone but only found two other projects which were threatened by moxie and then shut down.

Re: WhatsApp threatened with legal action in Germany over Facebook data sharing deal

#64

Post by aorth » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:18 PM UTC

claudius wrote: post #63

codethief wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incorrect. There is an open source reimplementation of Google Play Services ( https://microg.org/ ) and Signal works beautifully with it.

And wherefrom can you get Signal except for the Google Play store? I was looking for it a while ago to install on my phone but only found two other projects which were threatened by moxie and then shut down.

I compile my own binaries. Not too bad actually.

Re: WhatsApp threatened with legal action in Germany over Facebook data sharing deal

#65

Post by amelius » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

iaw wrote: post #55

reitanqild wrote: post #37

Anybody feels for discussing the actual meat of the post (consumer watchdogs actually threatening to sue Facebook) instead of discussing the alternatives or the lack of proper encryption in Telegram yet again? I for one am very happy to see this, both because it might teach Facebook and others a valuable lesson about messing with European consumers and because I used to love the old Whatsapp.

A few thoughts: * Encryption is one possible response to the broader concern around what companies are doing with user data * The broader concern, what are companies doing with our data, is often only spoken of from the consumer perspective. Consumers don't want liberties taken with their personal information, the nightmare scenario is that no one has privacy. * From a business perspective: what should FB and WhatsAp…

> Encryption is one possible response to the broader concern around what companies are doing with user data

And note that even with encryption, companies can still use our meta-data.

Re: WhatsApp threatened with legal action in Germany over Facebook data sharing deal

#66

Post by reitanqild » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

iaw wrote: post #55

reitanqild wrote: post #37

Anybody feels for discussing the actual meat of the post (consumer watchdogs actually threatening to sue Facebook) instead of discussing the alternatives or the lack of proper encryption in Telegram yet again? I for one am very happy to see this, both because it might teach Facebook and others a valuable lesson about messing with European consumers and because I used to love the old Whatsapp.

A few thoughts: * Encryption is one possible response to the broader concern around what companies are doing with user data * The broader concern, what are companies doing with our data, is often only spoken of from the consumer perspective. Consumers don't want liberties taken with their personal information, the nightmare scenario is that no one has privacy. * From a business perspective: what should FB and WhatsAp…

> From a business perspective: what should FB and WhatsApp do?

V e r y simple: stuck to the existing business model.

Or: if they really needed to make it free for consumers: their second idea, free for consumers, charge for business access (api etc). I was actually looking forward to that.

> As an aside: Telegram is not, and never will-be, a secure platform as has been detailed on HN by cryptographic experts when the service first launched.

Neither is twitter. I don't see any of you complain about how tweets are public for the world to see.

Telegram isn't a tool to defeat NSA, it is a tool to send stuff faster than email, with 100% less Facebook.

I can admit though that Telgrams marketing of their encryption has been at least borderline dishones.

Re: WhatsApp threatened with legal action in Germany over Facebook data sharing deal

#67

Post by viola11 » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 9:57 PM UTC

iaw wrote: post #55

reitanqild wrote: post #37

Anybody feels for discussing the actual meat of the post (consumer watchdogs actually threatening to sue Facebook) instead of discussing the alternatives or the lack of proper encryption in Telegram yet again? I for one am very happy to see this, both because it might teach Facebook and others a valuable lesson about messing with European consumers and because I used to love the old Whatsapp.

A few thoughts: * Encryption is one possible response to the broader concern around what companies are doing with user data * The broader concern, what are companies doing with our data, is often only spoken of from the consumer perspective. Consumers don't want liberties taken with their personal information, the nightmare scenario is that no one has privacy. * From a business perspective: what should FB and WhatsAp…

Look, the details of FBs operation are certainly not a concern for the consumers: the consumers have the right to get their privacy respected and there is no right FB can invoke to counter it.

The truth is that people do pay for messaging on the internet (email), just not the huge user base a popular free service can get.

As things stands, it does look like the only way to make lots of money out of huge user bases is by selling targeted ads, which in practice seems to be a rather unsavory business that shouldn't be trusted.

Re: WhatsApp threatened with legal action in Germany over Facebook data sharing deal

#68

Post by Grangar » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:01 PM UTC

reitanqild wrote: post #25

mariusavram wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's so hard to try to convince non-tech people to move to another app when they are so comfortable with Whatsapp...

All my friends except my parents and siblings and a single group of people that includes some old ones have already moved after Whatsapp went "free".

My circle moved to Telegram for about a month, then went back to WA because other people stayed there. FML.

Re: WhatsApp threatened with legal action in Germany over Facebook data sharing deal

#69

Post by Grangar » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:05 PM UTC

mhurron wrote: post #15

WhatsApp is Facebook. They're basically just two applications from the same company now. Are we going to have a ruling that data can't be passed from Lync to Skype in Microsoft, or from GMail to Googles Ad network? Just because corporate policy in 2014 was they would be completely separate doesn't mean that in 2016 that is now seen as a good idea (for them). Facebook makes money off your data, it was pretty obvious t…

Those applications you mentioned all have a different purpose. WA and FB share the same: communication.

Effectively they have almost everyone in their ecosystem now which (hopefully) is an antitrust case waiting to happen.

Re: WhatsApp threatened with legal action in Germany over Facebook data sharing deal

#70

Post by iaw » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:17 PM UTC

reitanqild wrote: post #66

iaw wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few thoughts: * Encryption is one possible response to the broader concern around what companies are doing with user data * The broader concern, what are companies doing with our data, is often only spoken of from the consumer perspective. Consumers don't want liberties taken with their personal information, the nightmare scenario is that no one has privacy. * From a business perspective: what should FB and WhatsAp…

> From a business perspective: what should FB and WhatsApp do? V e r y simple: stuck to the existing business model. Or: if they really needed to make it free for consumers: their second idea, free for consumers, charge for business access (api etc). I was actually looking forward to that. > As an aside: Telegram is not, and never will-be, a secure platform as has been detailed on HN by cryptographic experts when the…

> I can admit though that Telgrams marketing of their encryption has been at least borderline dishones.

So, 100% Facebook free with a company that is borderline dishonest in how it communicates about the things we can confirm... Why is that the better devil?