Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

mjg59.dreamwidth.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 257 posts

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#101

Post by PieterH »

raesene9 wrote: post #4

Also worth noting Lenovo's official statment on the matter http://www.techrepublic.com/article/lenovo-denies-deliberate... confirming that they have not blocked the installation of alternate operating systems. It was a shame to see the initial posts this morning hit the top of the page without any more evidence than a single customer support rep. who was unlikely to realistically have inside knowledge of some kind of…

"It was a shame to see the initial posts this morning hit the top of the page..."

If it raises the issue of running Linux on laptops, it's fine IMO. And both Lenovo and Microsoft have a lot of accumulated badwill that does not play in their favor. Guilty until proven innocent seems fair here.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#102

Post by PieterH »

tw04 wrote: post #93
captainmuon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just nitpicking. They blocked the enabling of a setting which allows Linux to see the hard disk. They went out of their way to make a firmware change that has the effect that you cannot run Linux - unless you flash your BIOS or you write a driver. In my book, they effectively blocked the installation of Linux. Now, there are two options. 1) to support this hardware correctly, you'd need to make complex changes…

If you're going so far as to install Linux on a laptop that shipped Windows, flashing the BIOS isn't a big deal at all. The real problem is that it took a third-party to fix the BIOS rather than Lenovo releasing a "BIOS for Linux" directly. I get not wanting to expose it from the factory to keep a user from screwing themselves, but there's no reason not to provide it to the power user.

I disagree. I'm happy to install Linux from a USB stick. I'm not happy reflashing a BIOS. Have installed many, many laptops with Linux (ironically, my all time favorites are older Lenovos like the X220). I've not once flashed a BIOS.

Not being able to change the OS on a laptop severely reduces its aftermarket value too. My laptop originally ran Windows. I bought it second hand to run Linux on.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#103

Post by n-gauge »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #87
zanny wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its actually no problem not to be backwards compatible with your "crazy new super advanced hardware". Except when that CNSAH is holistically proprietary and black box, with no documentation, no announcement of it, no schematics or free drivers or anything. "We made this black box that you aren't allowed to know how it works but you aren't supporting it so you are in the wrong".

I'm confused. Lenovo is claiming that the problem is Linux's fault because Linux isn't "forwards compatible"with the CNSAH -- except the CNSAH is actually backwards compatible with Linux, except Intel's usually enabled/unrestricted backwards compatible functionality is intentionally blocked by Lenovo by two lines of code in their BIOS. The fact that Intel's hardware is "CNSAH" (or even black box/proprietary/etc) is c…

from what has been shown to be a reversed engineer of the bios... a simple goto statement to skip menu config code muddies the water here... Why would a professional company do this? It certainly doesn't look accidental when seen from this angle.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#104

Post by raesene9 »

parenthephobia wrote: post #91
raesene9 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abosutely people are totally free not to buy their stuff. But that does not make it a conspiracy by MS or Lenovo. it is a commercial decision. companies get to make those consumers then get to choose whether to buy their stuff but it's not a conspiracy.

What conceivable commercial purpose of Lenovo is served by making it difficult for people to install operating systems other than Windows 10 on their laptops?

that's easy, they don't spend money on developing drivers for Linux.

Every OS they support costs money in developer time. It's a commercial trade-off what Operating Systems to support.

Put it this way, do you see lenovo or Dell or HP developing drivers for OpenBSD? there's no commercial ROI on that, so they don't

In this case it would appear that Lenovo don't think there's a commercial reason to help out with Linux drivers.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#105

Post by npiazza83 »

raesene9 wrote: post #81
npiazza83 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is saying they HAVE to support linux. Think of it like freedom of speech. Lenovo is free to put themselves out of business however they want and their consumers are free to call it a big ass mistake and call them idiots and not buy their blackbox crap.

Abosutely people are totally free not to buy their stuff. But that does not make it a conspiracy by MS or Lenovo. it is a commercial decision. companies get to make those consumers then get to choose whether to buy their stuff but it's not a conspiracy.

It may not be a conspiracy but it is certainly newsworthy. I've got a son who is getting to be about the age where a young man is ready for his spirit journey and will be sent to his room with an old laptop, his father's slackware disks, and a static IP and he will not be let out until www.youreamannow.com reads, "please bring me snacks."

I would hate to send him unprepared into the wild with a Lenovo.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#106

Post by vacri »

raesene9 wrote: post #4

Also worth noting Lenovo's official statment on the matter http://www.techrepublic.com/article/lenovo-denies-deliberate... confirming that they have not blocked the installation of alternate operating systems. It was a shame to see the initial posts this morning hit the top of the page without any more evidence than a single customer support rep. who was unlikely to realistically have inside knowledge of some kind of…

> without any more evidence than a single customer support rep

This sounds like post facto justification on your part. It's entirely reasonable to take the word of a customer support representative. It's also an egregious misrepresentation to paint it as "secret conspiracy", given the phrasing the representative used.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#107

Post by raesene9 »

michaelmrose wrote: post #85
raesene9 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the idea that a random customer service rep. would have information about something that was not a public position of either Lenovo or Microsoft, to me, seemed unlikely.

Ive frequently as a complete peon been privileged to know non public info about the inner workings and policies that was not only non public but that I was forbidden to share with the world as a matter of course. Far from being unusual this is the norm. We aren't talking about deep dark secrets we are talking about normal privileged company information. The strange thing in fact is not the employee knowing things not…

Well we'd be talking about a secret conspiracy (secret as it's not publicly known) by one of the largest companies in the world (Microsoft) to block installation of Linux on Lenovo's systems.

For the CS rep. to know this, all Lenovo CS rep's would have to know.

And not one of them leaked this juicy info. to the press or reddit or anywhere else....

Just doesn't strike me as a likely course of events.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#108

Post by hatsix »

raesene9 wrote: post #89
captainmuon wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the old distinction between "should do legally" and just "should do". Of course I don't believe they should be forced to do anything. But then I reserve the right to be indignant about this. And I also think it is a bit stupid: Lenovo had a reputation for having serious business Laptops. They cared about power-user customers who wanted to configure everything, and they had good Linux support. Either they messed…

oh I agree with you I absolutely think they should support Linux, personally it's my OS of choice for technical work and their lack of support here makes me less likely to buy their stuff in the future (my next laptop will likely be a Dell XPS 13 Developer edition, precisely because of their linux support)

This is their consumer-focused Yoga. Their Thinkpad Yoga does not have any issues running Linux.

The only issue I've ever had with Thinkpad laptops was the Prime Nvidia/Intel video card switching... which is very similar to this in that it just wasn't supported by the drivers.

I see that Dell just had a big expansion of their Developer Editions... good for them! But it still appears that a fresh install of Ubuntu takes manual configuration of video drivers and power managment, meaning that they haven't figured out how to really make embracing Ubuntu smooth.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#110

Post by SahAssar »

raesene9 wrote: post #81
npiazza83 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is saying they HAVE to support linux. Think of it like freedom of speech. Lenovo is free to put themselves out of business however they want and their consumers are free to call it a big ass mistake and call them idiots and not buy their blackbox crap.

Abosutely people are totally free not to buy their stuff. But that does not make it a conspiracy by MS or Lenovo. it is a commercial decision. companies get to make those consumers then get to choose whether to buy their stuff but it's not a conspiracy.

Seems to me like they are well within their rights to do this (in at least some markets), but that when asked about it they should be able to stand by that decision and say why.
Post reply on HN