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Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

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Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#71

Post by Hydraulix989 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #9
christogreeff wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was fascinating how quickly people condemned Microsoft without applying any critical thinking to the issue. I tend to not read commments on articles anymore, where Microsoft is blamed for something. Reminds me of Slahdot.

Moment I saw it this morning I was like "probably one of those SSDs with a really weird driver setup". My Surface Pro 4 has one too, and Acronis didn't initially work with it either.

Except that's an inaccurate assumption.

If you actually read the specifics about the situation, you'll learn that the SSD is set up in RAID mode, and the Intel hardware also supports AHCI mode.

Acronis and all other OSes do not have driver-level support for this new experimental RAID hardware at all; they do support AHCI, of course, like they have for years.

The BIOS normally has an option to revert the hardware back to normal AHCI mode, but Lenovo intentionally restricted the Advanced page in the BIOS containing this option (which is available and unrestricted by default in the BIOS code they received from the manufacturer) by adding a goto statement to the BIOS's code.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#72

Post by simbalion »

sctb wrote: post #69
simbalion wrote: post #16

edit: the truth has been censored because I spoke harshly of those looking to perpetuate evil.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12551433 and marked it off-topic. You didn't need to edit-away your comments in this thread, which is another way of abusing the community by vandalizing the discussion. Since we've asked you before to comment civilly and substantively, we've banned this account. If you'd like to commit to doing so in the future, you can email hn@ycombinator.com and…

How sad for everyone. Now only ignorance exists.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#74

Post by Jtsummers »

vonmoltke wrote: post #26
__jal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, when a Lenovo rep says: "This system has a Signature Edition of Windows 10 Home installed. It is locked per our agreement with Microsoft," it doesn't exactly require a bomb-throwing partisan to reach the conclusion.

That statement is not by a "Lenovo rep" but by a "Lenovo Product Expert" at Best Buy. If I am not mistaken, those "experts" work for Best Buy, not the company whose products they are experts in.

Sometimes they do work for the company whose products they are "experts" in. Best Buy gets a "free" employee (the hardware company pays the salary), and the company gets a dedicated person in a store for their products. They're still more Best Buy employee than employee.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#75

Post by huhtenberg »

sctb wrote: post #61
huhtenberg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea who are the dolts^H^H^H^H^H kind people who have downvoted you into light gray, but you are bloody right. Just look at their complete and utter disregard to everyone's privacy demonstrated by Windows 10. Remember all the shady shit Microsoft pulled to shovel W10 down everyone's throat, including "x", the cancel, being treated as "Yes, upgrade". How short and selective of a memory you should have to then claim…

> No idea who are the dolts who have downvoted you into light gray... > WTH is wrong with you, people, really. Please comment civilly and substantively or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

How was it now civil or substantive?

Edit - oh, you must be referring to "dolts". Please consider it a succinct version of my opinion of trigger-happy people who downvote perfectly good comments that they disagree with. The downvote option is still not meant for expressing disagreement on HN, is it not?

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#76

Post by npiazza83 »

raesene9 wrote: post #60
captainmuon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just nitpicking. They blocked the enabling of a setting which allows Linux to see the hard disk. They went out of their way to make a firmware change that has the effect that you cannot run Linux - unless you flash your BIOS or you write a driver. In my book, they effectively blocked the installation of Linux. Now, there are two options. 1) to support this hardware correctly, you'd need to make complex changes…

Should Lenovo provide a driver. Let's be honest, that's a commercial decision and entirely up to them if they want to support Linux installs on this hardware. Why should a commercial company be forced to provide support for a platform? If they advertise the hardware as supporting Linux then sure they absolutely should be required to support it. If they don't, then why should they have to support it?

I don't think anyone is saying they HAVE to support linux. Think of it like freedom of speech. Lenovo is free to put themselves out of business however they want and their consumers are free to call it a big ass mistake and call them idiots and not buy their blackbox crap.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#77

Post by raesene9 »

simbalion wrote: post #56
raesene9 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Critical thinking led me to believe this story was false. The option in question wasn't cloaked under "security" or "encryption" as many lock-downs are, but instead an unsupported disk mode. The evidence that it was a "secret conspiracy" was a quote from a low-level customer support rep. You really think that that kind of information is provided to the thousands of rep's at that level... It would leak instantly if th…

edit: the truth has been censored because I spoke harshly of those looking to perpetuate evil.

lol relatively new (hmm first PC I built myself was 1992, started work professionally in IT in 1995, first ran Desktop linux with (pre FC) Redhat 9, s'that long enough ago for you?)

I was a Netware admin back when MS dirty tricks were at their height, I personally battled with the driver shenanigans they pulled on Windows 95...

This really didn't look like a conspiracy to me it looked like old-school, someone's done something funky with the hardware and not bothered thinking about linux support.

Thus my original comment, it was disappointing to see pople rush to judgement on this, not everything is a conspiracy and it doesn't help to see it as such.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#78

Post by kbody »

johnward wrote: post #70
raesene9 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A low level rep. from a company is very unlikely to be party to something considered "secret" at a corporate level. So given that it wasn't a stated policy, that side of the story just didn't seem likely. Indeed you can't install linux on that machine, but that's a technical problem and a deficiency in Lenovo's setup, just not a conspiracy by Microsoft.

and those low level employees at Wells Fargo committed fraud on their own without any direction from management.

A circle is a shape. A square is a shape. Thus a circle is a square. This is the logic you applied.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#79

Post by raesene9 »

johnward wrote: post #70
raesene9 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A low level rep. from a company is very unlikely to be party to something considered "secret" at a corporate level. So given that it wasn't a stated policy, that side of the story just didn't seem likely. Indeed you can't install linux on that machine, but that's a technical problem and a deficiency in Lenovo's setup, just not a conspiracy by Microsoft.

and those low level employees at Wells Fargo committed fraud on their own without any direction from management.

that's a non-sequiteur, in the case of wells fargo the fact of the secret conspiracies absolutely leaked, just like I'm suggesting it would if Lenovo and MS had some pact.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#80

Post by teraflop »

guelo wrote: post #66
jsmthrowaway wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This guy" is relatively known for hacking on Linux laptop drivers and a long relationship with Intel hardware and power management in particular, so I'll stop short of appealing to authority and just say I value his speculation even if it is that. (Which I don't think it is.)

This guy is so knowledgable that he says > Why not offer the option to disable it? A user who does would end up with a machine that doesn't boot But the modder that flashed the custom BIOS was able to boot linux on the first attempt.

That comment was clearly referring to the common case of ordinary Windows users, who could easily render their existing systems unbootable by changing the driver mode after Windows was already installed.
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