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Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

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Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#61

Post by sctb »

huhtenberg wrote: post #30
simbalion wrote: post #16

edit: the truth has been censored because I spoke harshly of those looking to perpetuate evil.

No idea who are the dolts^H^H^H^H^H kind people who have downvoted you into light gray, but you are bloody right. Just look at their complete and utter disregard to everyone's privacy demonstrated by Windows 10. Remember all the shady shit Microsoft pulled to shovel W10 down everyone's throat, including "x", the cancel, being treated as "Yes, upgrade". How short and selective of a memory you should have to then claim…

> No idea who are the dolts who have downvoted you into light gray...

> WTH is wrong with you, people, really.

Please comment civilly and substantively or not at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#62

Post by captainmuon »

raesene9 wrote: post #36
__jal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, when a Lenovo rep says: "This system has a Signature Edition of Windows 10 Home installed. It is locked per our agreement with Microsoft," it doesn't exactly require a bomb-throwing partisan to reach the conclusion.

But the idea that a random customer service rep. would have information about something that was not a public position of either Lenovo or Microsoft, to me, seemed unlikely.

What if Lenovo and MS have an agreement what to preinstall on those Laptops - which is very common. Furthermore, Lenovo agreed not to offer ways to install specific other software - no bundled Antivirus CD, no downloadable Lenovo Picks app - and maybe or maybe not - don't prepare customer support to answer "how to install Linux".

The customer rep gets a cryptic sticker on his desk: "Models 1234S, 3333S: Signature Windows Disk ONLY". If a customer calls asking for a restoration media, they get the correct one. If they call asking for Linux, sorry it is not supported according to my sticker.

I'm just making this up of course, but it is not entirely unplausible to me. In fact I find it more plausible then just an accident. Why would a customer rep just make stuff like that up?

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#63

Post by nixos »

christogreeff wrote: post #43
huhtenberg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea who are the dolts^H^H^H^H^H kind people who have downvoted you into light gray, but you are bloody right. Just look at their complete and utter disregard to everyone's privacy demonstrated by Windows 10. Remember all the shady shit Microsoft pulled to shovel W10 down everyone's throat, including "x", the cancel, being treated as "Yes, upgrade". How short and selective of a memory you should have to then claim…

Selective memory is disregarding all other areas where MS is actually encouring or trying to make their products work on Linux. The future of Microsoft is not Windows. I am also not disregarding the fact that I might be wrong, but as a Windows and Linux user, it seems strange to possibly alienate potential users with a Linux blocking move.

Working on Linux isn't the same as allowing someone to run Linux on their computer.

Working on Linux is recognizing that Linux has more that a 0.1% share and by not working on Linux, your tools loose mind-share among developers.

So sure, if I was MS I'd want some (good) form of VS/C# to run on Linux, if only for devs to see that VS isn't the monstrosity of the 90s and maybe think about migrating back to Windows were you can get "the real VS/C#".

Would I want to let people uninstall Windows? No way

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#64

Post by johansch »

sqeaky wrote: post #52
johansch wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have a quite strong record of abuse. It will take them another generation to shake that, at least. You knew that when you chose that particular ecosystem. (Why else would you defend them here?)

I came here to say this. I am not sure why you got downvoted so much. They have behaved in negative ways for a long time they will need to behave differently for quite a long time before they are trusted again. They have cleaned up many but not all of their behaviors. They are still abusing patents against smaller android distributors. If they care about their patents they would sue Google or the AOSP steering group…

This industry runs on young people. Old people are far and between. (In this context, old means anyone who actually experienced Microsoft's behavior between mid 80s and late 90s.)

Most (80%) developer experiences these days are probably limited to their behavior from year ~2008 and onwards.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#66

Post by guelo »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #47
guelo wrote: post #31

Without any comment from Lenovo or Microsoft this guy is speculating the same as everybody else.

"This guy" is relatively known for hacking on Linux laptop drivers and a long relationship with Intel hardware and power management in particular, so I'll stop short of appealing to authority and just say I value his speculation even if it is that. (Which I don't think it is.)

This guy is so knowledgable that he says

> Why not offer the option to disable it? A user who does would end up with a machine that doesn't boot

But the modder that flashed the custom BIOS was able to boot linux on the first attempt.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#67

Post by rburhum »

What is crazy to me is that Lenovo is usually the brand that people recommend for Linux laptops. They are shooting themselves in the foot here. They may think that the number of people on Linux is too small, but I bet it is bigger than they think. It is just that there is no easy way to accurately census the amount of Linux users on their HW.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#68

Post by raesene9 »

guelo wrote: post #48
raesene9 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's a view, but did anyone actually ask Lenovo for official comment before posting the story as gospel truth? From what I've read, I saw no evidence that they had. I'd just suggesting a slightly more measured approach might have worked just as well....

Users don't have any other channel to ask Lenovo besides the forums and (apparently more effectively) leaving poor reviews on Best Buy and Amazon.

yep that's not an unreasonable point, but do you not think that a more reasonable position would have been to ask Lenovo/MS and wait some time for a response before assuming that it was a conspiracy on MS' part?

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#69

Post by sctb »

simbalion wrote: post #16

edit: the truth has been censored because I spoke harshly of those looking to perpetuate evil.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12551433 and marked it off-topic. You didn't need to edit-away your comments in this thread, which is another way of abusing the community by vandalizing the discussion.

Since we've asked you before to comment civilly and substantively, we've banned this account. If you'd like to commit to doing so in the future, you can email hn@ycombinator.com and we can unban the account.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#70

Post by johnward »

raesene9 wrote: post #33
indexerror wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should someone not consider the reply from a lenovo rep as legitimate (although absurd)? There was a problem and lenovo said that the problem was because of the signature edition windows. Your comment about requiring more evidence is valid but rebuttal requires some time, and here we have it. I doubt lenovo would have cared about it had it not hit media. Note that the problem is still not solved. You cannot insta…

A low level rep. from a company is very unlikely to be party to something considered "secret" at a corporate level. So given that it wasn't a stated policy, that side of the story just didn't seem likely. Indeed you can't install linux on that machine, but that's a technical problem and a deficiency in Lenovo's setup, just not a conspiracy by Microsoft.

and those low level employees at Wells Fargo committed fraud on their own without any direction from management.
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