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I Used to Be a Human Being

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Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#141

Post by marmot777 »

kodt wrote: post #129
marmot777 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's right. I'm realizing that the problem the OP brings up is really a spectrum. I actually do think I have a problem with too much time online but everyone's solution isn't drastic measures. For some it might be scheduling yoga, the gym, a beer with friends. You know you have a problem when you're grateful when a friend cancels plans as you get to spend more time online. One thing is clear though, immersion…

How many people on your Facebook friends list, or more specifically who show up on your feed have you not talked to in over a year? In over 5 years? For me I would say 90% of people on my feed I have not spoken with in over a year or two. Some not for 5 years, some not for 10 years. So the question is, is it really worth my time to read updates on their life when neither of us can be bothered nor have reason to actua…

You make valid points. But I'll still make a feeble attempt to defend Facebook.

Speaking for myself, I've had some interesting and fun conversations on Facebook and even met new people that became friends in real life. I don't pay much attention to the check out how wonderful my life is posts and more attention to something that seems more genuine, is interesting, or the basis for some banter. I actually enjoy seeing pictures of people's families and they seem to enjoy when I post pictures of my son but I don't do that very often.

I've already accounted for the positive bias on Facebook so it does not affect my view of the world. I'd imagine most people who've survived on Facebook this long have done the same, not to mention I think the nature of posts has gotten beyond the burnishing one's image to more balanced life challenges sort of posts. I'm talking about my feed so others might not be seeing this trend but it's possible a lot of people have said fuck it I'm going to tell the truth on here.

I am friends on Facebook with close friends and family but yes a lot of my "friends" are a hodgepodge of people I met once, met online somehow, and some I don't even remember where they came from. So the net result is a sort of fantasy community. I'm not sure there's anything wrong with a fantasy community though as I experience it as real. I'm not sure if that's a contradiction but I'd better get off HN for the rest of the day as this is topic is consuming. :-)

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#142

Post by arcticfox »

morgante wrote: post #115

To me, this reads like an alcoholic ranting about how everyone should stop drinking. Yes, technology can be addicting. That doesn't mean we're "helpless" or even that it's bad . I'm really sick of these hyperbolic luddites. Personally, it's not at all a problem. I'm not a technophobe—I have an iPhone, use Facebook, etc.—but it's done nothing but positively improve my life. I can keep in touch with friends around the…

> If technology is hurting your life, the problem could just as easily be with you as it is with technology.

In large part, that's what the author is saying: "And I realize that this is, in some ways, just another tale in the vast book of human frailty."

Humans are weak in the face of what we've built, some (the author) more than others (you). That doesn't mean it's a problem for everyone, but it's definitely a problem for some.

And to use your comparison to alcohol: humanity has millenia of experience with the consumption and overconsumption of alcohol. We basically know the risks. "The Stream" has only existed for something like a decade and it's only getting stronger every day. IMO there's nothing wrong with being very cautious about it and quickly reacting to ill effects.

I wouldn't say I'm addicted and I have nothing close to this author's problem, but I do find "The Stream" lowering my quality of life, so I'm working on moving away from it.

Also, another quote from the author since you seem to be very upset with him over a bit of a strawman that you set up:

"...it reveals, perhaps, that we are not completely helpless in this newly distracted era."

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#143

Post by Osmium »

resetting wrote: post #7

I'd be interested to hear everyone's strategies to combat this, as I assume many of us that work in the industry encounter similar problems of distraction and inundation. First, I don't use any devices directly after waking up. I meditate for about 20 minutes upon waking and then try to read fiction for 40 minutes. So, all in, somewhere around an hour of no device distractions before starting my day. Slack is one of…

> I'd be interested to hear everyone's strategies to combat this

For me, it's all about latency: I try to introduce a barrier for being able to access typical time-wasting sites. If there was a way on OS X to reduce browsing certain websites to pre-broadband speeds, I'd be all on that.

> For personal things, I deleted Facebook and feel quite a bit better.

I did this too. So glad, don't miss it at all, and actually feel like I talk to my friends more now as a result.

I'm still on the fence about contributing to a community like HN (anyone looking at my profile will see a big gap of about a year). It's a nice community with useful discussions, but I'm not sure it positives outweigh the negatives for me (distraction).

I also try to get my news via newsletter now, e.g. I get the top HN articles emailed to me rather than checking the website manually. That way I get to stay up-to-date without that 'slot machine' effect of just refreshing the front page when I'm taking a break.

Overall, I strongly believe the Internet is addictive. I'm glad it exists. It's enriched my life in many ways. But the addictiveness is certainly real, and it's something I'm trying to actively address in myself.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#144

Post by dredmorbius »

n72 wrote: post #118

I'm considering writing a plugin which, much like an ad-blocker, removes click bait links. There would be various black lists one could use. Any feedback on implementation appreciated.

My thinking is leaning toward a few concepts:

* Quantified content utilisation. I've been looking at measures of just how much content people can engage with in a day, and it's much smaller than you might think. Stephen Wolfram and Walt Mossberg both hit about 150 - 300 emails. The NY Times comment moderation crew tackle about 800 comments each per day. That latter means 36 seconds per comment, assuming an 8-hour day. At some point, your brain simply becomes full. I suspect a much smaller number of detailed items, and a small number (10-30) medium, and perhaps 100 or so trivial items, is about the sane limit.

* A quality metric for content, based on some finite, depletable, periodically renewed resource. "Time" might be one such metric (you've only got 86,400 seconds today, but you'll have more tomorrow!). I have a 5-6 point ranking of content, from '0' (actually makes you stupid for having read it) to 5/6 (defines a field, 6 == extends it). Most news articles fall in the 1-2 range, a good news article perhaps 3, a solid technical paper a 3-4. Key is to not assign everything a top-of-the-scale range.

* Assignment of reputations to sources based on those ratings. Both authors and publishers.

Increasingly, I'm simply adding clickbait sites to my firewall's blocklist.

https://ello.co/dredmorbius/post/wgtaltzorrurzat3wf-lwa

Iwould very much prrefer to have that capacity on my tablet itself (Google and Samsung say I cannot, fuck 'em, fuck 'em hard), or in some brwoser-like tool (really a next-gen browser).

https://ello.co/dredmorbius/post/ubkidr7yuc7azg9hdnl7lq

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#145

Post by callmeed »

morgante wrote: post #115

To me, this reads like an alcoholic ranting about how everyone should stop drinking. Yes, technology can be addicting. That doesn't mean we're "helpless" or even that it's bad . I'm really sick of these hyperbolic luddites. Personally, it's not at all a problem. I'm not a technophobe—I have an iPhone, use Facebook, etc.—but it's done nothing but positively improve my life. I can keep in touch with friends around the…

Respectfully disagree with your view.

Technology in and of itself is not bad. But when technology is run by technology companies whose motive is profit, it can be bad.

I think what we're seeing is new externalities caused by technology. I think junk food + soda + obesity is a more apt analogy than alcoholism. It's easy to say "don't get addicted to junk food or soda" but you have to remember that these companies specifically formulate their products to hack your body and make you crave more. Then they bombard you with ads. All so they can sell you more.

In the same way, technology companies make more money the more you use their products. So they specifically architect their products to hack your brain so you will use it more. It's easy to say "don't get addicted to Facebook" or "the problem is you" but, frankly, I don't think its that simple.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#146

Post by ashark »

marmot777 wrote: post #65
overcast wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done the same. Facebook was closed last year, Reddit this year, Twitter never really used, but deleted the app. I've added comment blockers in all of my browsers to get rid of all of the negativity on websites, especially YouTube. I don't use any other social apps besides the occasional Instagram for business purposes. My phone goes into Do Not Disturb about an hour before bed, and I place it face down on the ni…

How do people survive without Facebook? How do I keep up with what everyone's up to? Sure, there's a lot of mindless posting on there but for me the good outweighs the bad.

Text to coordinate gatherings/hanging-out. Talk at gatherings/hang-outs.

[EDIT] remove (mild) snark

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#147

Post by [deleted] »

morgante wrote: post #115

To me, this reads like an alcoholic ranting about how everyone should stop drinking. Yes, technology can be addicting. That doesn't mean we're "helpless" or even that it's bad . I'm really sick of these hyperbolic luddites. Personally, it's not at all a problem. I'm not a technophobe—I have an iPhone, use Facebook, etc.—but it's done nothing but positively improve my life. I can keep in touch with friends around the…

[deleted]

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#148

Post by crawfordcomeaux »

morgante wrote: post #132
kelvin0 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you mean, and you are quite possibly right. Please don't take it as an insult, but how do you know this technology is not causing similar issues in your life? We've all seen some people in our lives deny some facet of themselves only to realize they had a problem (after much introspection). I would really like to have your opinion on this.

> Please don't take it as an insult, but how do you know this technology is not causing similar issues in your life? That's something I think a lot about. For me, the evidence that technology is not having that effect on my life: 1. At least once a year, I go on a hike of at least 1 week (without a phone). I'm consistently able to do this without feeling any sort of withdrawal. 2. I try to read a book on my Kindle fo…

I'm an information addict and here's a fun fact about my recovery experience:

It didn't start til I stopped looking things up in books. That kicked off 9 months of vivid dreams that evolved as I managed to identify & slowly remove other innocuous compulsive behaviors from my daily life.

I want to be clear about this: I'm not saying you sound like an addict. Everything in the world is potentially addictive if it can help escape from or numb emotions. And it doesn't matter much what the source of the addiction is, but the behaviors involved in interacting with that source. That's why it didn't actually matter that I went offline for months on end.

My view of addiction is this:

Addicts are genetically (and likely epigenetically) predisposed to developing a learning disorder we call addiction in response to psychological trauma. The first step to solving the problem of addiction in society isn't to lock up all the addictive things. It's to recognize technology has made it easy as hell for anyone to partake in activities that provide immediate gratification and that means the world has become a much more dangerous place for people predisposed to addiction.

Information addiction is frightening as hell to think about, even when I'm happily moving along in my recovery. I live in a world where the spread of technology is always on the rise & any job that pays well will require me to, in one way or another, dive into my addictive behaviors.

If the author's (likely fearfully) suggesting what you see as extreme solutions, I can absolutely understand where he's coming from.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#149

Post by mcphage »

marmot777 wrote: post #55

I see his point and used to read his blog. But could he have been just as effective online while scheduling in a real life? That is, he could have achieved as much or more with some measure of balance. Easier said than done. I'm not saying I have a life but I'm hoping to get one real soon now.

> But could he have been just as effective online while scheduling in a real life? That is, he could have achieved as much or more with some measure of balance.

I'd like to believe it's possible, but I think he had to accept the fact that, he didn't know how. Maybe he'll figure it out, now that he has some more free time?

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#150

Post by sliverstorm »

marmot777 wrote: post #99
sliverstorm wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been going around and around on notifications. If sound is enabled, my phone interrupts me for trivial things & spam. If only notification is enabled, I constantly pick up my phone to see if I have email. If nothing is enabled, I unlock my phone & open my email app to see if I have email- less frequent, but more likely to get sucked in. None of these things are good.

I feel for you but please, please don't let email be the channel that has a hold on you. Pick another one to be a slave to. Is it work or personal? If it's work is it urgent? I ask these questions because you could set some rules on email. I check my personal email once per day. My masters are facebook and text.

Personal. Work email is there for the calendar sync (very useful), but I feel little compulsion to check it.

For a while I completely removed email from my phone, but that was a pain when I legitimately needed, for example, an RMA number while standing in the post office.

You're right, rules plus zero notifications would probably work well. Or, perhaps enable notifications and set it to check only once a day.

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