Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#21

Post by gautamdivgi » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:53 PM UTC

huhtenberg wrote: post #15

Yeah, sure, Microsoft is now all white and fluffy. Best friends forever. How about we pay some attention to the second part of: Lenovo's firmware defaults to "RAID" mode and ** doesn't allow you to change that ** Power savings or not, but locking down storage controller to a mode that just happens to be supported by exactly one OS has NO obvious rational explanation. Either Lenovo does that or Windows does. This has…

Lenovo may have set power saving standards for the laptop based on what they want to market. It's Intel that dropped the ball here. They need to submit patches for RAID to upstream Linux. Or it could just be a firmware bug.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#22

Post by msh » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:54 PM UTC

huhtenberg wrote: post #15

Yeah, sure, Microsoft is now all white and fluffy. Best friends forever. How about we pay some attention to the second part of: Lenovo's firmware defaults to "RAID" mode and ** doesn't allow you to change that ** Power savings or not, but locking down storage controller to a mode that just happens to be supported by exactly one OS has NO obvious rational explanation. Either Lenovo does that or Windows does. This has…

Quote from the article:

Why not offer the option to disable it? A user who does would end up with a machine that doesn't boot, and if they managed to figure that out they'd have worse power management. That increases support costs. For a consumer device, why would you want to? The number of people buying these laptops to run anything other than Windows is miniscule

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#23

Post by Sanddancer » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:55 PM UTC

simbalion wrote: post #16

edit: the truth has been censored because I spoke harshly of those looking to perpetuate evil.

It isn't hard to figure out what's happening if you read everything that went on. Windows itself doesn't install on these computers unless you have special drivers in the boot medium that aren't included with Windows 10. Why would Microsoft sabotage their own OS like that if this were something done to stymie other OSes?

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#24

Post by detaro » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:55 PM UTC

13of40 wrote: post #20

huhtenberg wrote: post #15

Yeah, sure, Microsoft is now all white and fluffy. Best friends forever. How about we pay some attention to the second part of: Lenovo's firmware defaults to "RAID" mode and ** doesn't allow you to change that ** Power savings or not, but locking down storage controller to a mode that just happens to be supported by exactly one OS has NO obvious rational explanation. Either Lenovo does that or Windows does. This has…

Why doesn't Linux support it? Is "RAID" mode based on some spec that was only provided to Microsoft and kept secret from everyone else?

I doubt Microsoft knows the spec to it, all they care about is that the manufacturer provides a working driver.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#25

Post by mjg59 » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:56 PM UTC

13of40 wrote: post #20

huhtenberg wrote: post #15

Yeah, sure, Microsoft is now all white and fluffy. Best friends forever. How about we pay some attention to the second part of: Lenovo's firmware defaults to "RAID" mode and ** doesn't allow you to change that ** Power savings or not, but locking down storage controller to a mode that just happens to be supported by exactly one OS has NO obvious rational explanation. Either Lenovo does that or Windows does. This has…

Why doesn't Linux support it? Is "RAID" mode based on some spec that was only provided to Microsoft and kept secret from everyone else?

Windows only supports it if you use the Intel storage driver - even Microsoft don't ship a driver that supports it.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#26

Post by vonmoltke » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:57 PM UTC

__jal wrote: post #19

christogreeff wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was fascinating how quickly people condemned Microsoft without applying any critical thinking to the issue. I tend to not read commments on articles anymore, where Microsoft is blamed for something. Reminds me of Slahdot.

Well, when a Lenovo rep says: "This system has a Signature Edition of Windows 10 Home installed. It is locked per our agreement with Microsoft," it doesn't exactly require a bomb-throwing partisan to reach the conclusion.

That statement is not by a "Lenovo rep" but by a "Lenovo Product Expert" at Best Buy. If I am not mistaken, those "experts" work for Best Buy, not the company whose products they are experts in.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#27

Post by mcpherrinm » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:58 PM UTC

13of40 wrote: post #20

huhtenberg wrote: post #15

Yeah, sure, Microsoft is now all white and fluffy. Best friends forever. How about we pay some attention to the second part of: Lenovo's firmware defaults to "RAID" mode and ** doesn't allow you to change that ** Power savings or not, but locking down storage controller to a mode that just happens to be supported by exactly one OS has NO obvious rational explanation. Either Lenovo does that or Windows does. This has…

Why doesn't Linux support it? Is "RAID" mode based on some spec that was only provided to Microsoft and kept secret from everyone else?

> "RAID" mode is typically just changing the PCI IDs so that the normal drivers won't bind, ensuring that drivers that support the software RAID mode are used.

It sounds like the kernel just needs to learn about the new PCI ID.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#28

Post by simbalion » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:58 PM UTC

Sanddancer wrote: post #23

simbalion wrote: post #16

edit: the truth has been censored because I spoke harshly of those looking to perpetuate evil.

It isn't hard to figure out what's happening if you read everything that went on. Windows itself doesn't install on these computers unless you have special drivers in the boot medium that aren't included with Windows 10. Why would Microsoft sabotage their own OS like that if this were something done to stymie other OSes?

Nice strawman.

What's happening is Microsoft broke the law, again. And some folks are playing devil's advocate. So be it, I hope y'all enjoy burning in hell. That's the only story here.

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#29

Post by bendykstra » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 7:58 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #17

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #11

The moral of the story is that you shouldn't trust a low-level support engineer as a source for official company policy.

Or the uncritical tech press or the rubes on reddit, etc. Its obvious to me that we're living in a time where rumors, falsehoods, and purposeful misdirection are easily monetized and that's what our tech press has degenerated into. Critical voices just get downvoted away for being "shills" or somesuch. We live in a time where likes and upvotes control what we see and informed criticism being censored away by downvote…

"Besides, as the vilest Writer has his Readers, so the greatest Liar has his Believers; and it often happens, that if a Lie be believ’d only for an Hour, it has done its Work, and there is no farther occasion for it. Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it; so that when Men come to be undeceiv’d, it is too late; the Jest is over, and the Tale has had its Effect…"

Jonathan Swift (1710)

Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems

#30

Post by huhtenberg » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 8:00 PM UTC

simbalion wrote: post #16

edit: the truth has been censored because I spoke harshly of those looking to perpetuate evil.

No idea who are the dolts^H^H^H^H^H kind people who have downvoted you into light gray, but you are bloody right.

Just look at their complete and utter disregard to everyone's privacy demonstrated by Windows 10. Remember all the shady shit Microsoft pulled to shovel W10 down everyone's throat, including "x", the cancel, being treated as "Yes, upgrade". How short and selective of a memory you should have to then claim with a straight face that NOT assuming that Lenovo lockdown is benign is the lack of critical thinking. WTH is wrong with you, people, really.