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Nootropics

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Re: Nootropics

#251

Post by Galaxeblaffer »

Wow.. This dude..

I've tested a couple of the mentioned drugs myself and thought i'd chip in with my results and learnings

Modafinil/Armodafinil

Definitely works and the side effects are neglectable. It's much as he describes it but im not sure why he can't feel it some of the time as the effect on me is really strong, especially with armodafinil which was almost too much to be hanging around other people :) You feel very awake like a mild cocaine high but have an easy time focusing on the task you are doing, i can definitely recommend it for all nighters and situations where you have to get something out the door !

Melatonin

I've experienced quite a bit with this, since i have really really hard time falling asleep. It's actually a huge issue for me. i've found that "microdosing" works even better than taking the "normal dose" of 2-3mg. I found a supplier in the Netherlands who sells 300ug pills and they have worked wonders for me ! works just as well as the stronger dose but it seems that the lower dose makes you sleep better.

Just my 2 cents :)

Re: Nootropics

#252

Post by forloop »

jgalvez wrote: post #242
forloop wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like a follower of Ray Peat. He recommends MB, holds that position on fish oil, recommends K2 as a quinone, recommends aspirin, and recommends nicotinamide* (for the NAD+) From what I can tell—and having experience with MB & his diet)—he's full of shit. * You should look into that. Nicotinamide inhibits the sirtuins. You'd probably be better off with nicotinic acid or nicotinamide riboside (NR).

He's full of shit doesn't exactly convince me, when I look at his amazing coherence, all the wonderful books he's written, hundreds of articles, newsletters, and his general seriousness and disinterest in popularity. One or other thing he's recommended (always backing himself with references and studies) may not have worked for you, but dismissing him like that to me only shows short-sightedness. Would love to hear y…

I heard that sirtuins are beneficial for a healthy organism, and could be detrimental to someone with cancer. The same goes for something like glutathione (since they make cells more robust, and you don't want robust cancers cells!).

I've read anti-agingfirewalls.com with great interest. Here's one of the articles:

"PART 3: Slaying Two Dragons with the Sound of Silence: – How to Keep Your Repetitive DNA Turned Off with “3 Songs”: Sirtuins, Polycomb Proteins, and DNMT3. And a Master List of Drugs and Natural Compounds for Cancer Chemoprevention"[0]

Anti-ageingfirewalls.com is a tour de force. And it's at least worth reading the earlier articles (some of the recent articles on NAD require significant knowledge).

As far as I can tell, Peat contradicts the consensus. I've tried his methods, and had terrible results. He also goes against the information I'm exposed to. He may be correct, but I assign a tiny probability to that. I wouldn't recommend anyone start with Ray Peat.

[0] http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2013/05/20/part-3-slaying...

Re: Nootropics

#253

Post by kale »

forloop wrote: post #233
aninhumer wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sleep isn't a nootropic. This happens quite a lot with noobs. It's a figurative usage. The OP is not suggesting sleep is literally a nootropic, but that it is something that performs the same function. Like "the best defence is a good offence". And I don't think it's derailing the topic to talk about relevant alternatives.

> The best nootropic is getting a good nights sleep. The above is a direct quote from OP. Where's the metaphor? You're grossly mistaken! > but that it is something that performs the same function Can sleep gives one supranormal cognition? No. Does sleep perform the same function as modafinil (a drug which gives you more time to work since you need less sleep)? They're nearly opposites. Does sleep perform the same fun…

> Does sleep perform the same function as melatonin? A hormone that allows greater sleep "efficiency" than normal sleep.

Melatonin is the hormone that regulates sleep normally. You're taking additional sleep hormone by taking it orally. So sleep is melatonin.

It's the hormone that is theorized to be involved in the "blue light" sleep effect. When the high-wavelength cones are stimulated, melatonin release is reduced, according to current theory. [0]

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11487664

Re: Nootropics

#254

Post by george_ciobanu »

mettamage wrote: post #94
HalfwayToDice wrote: post #74

The best nootropic is getting a good nights sleep. It takes effort! Preparing for bed early and disciplining yourself to put the light out is not easy. Not nearly as easy as popping a pill. But it's so much more effective than any drug listed here. And for a safe and provable quick cognitive boost, take some caffeine, preferable green tea with theanine.

It's hard for me to fall asleep. I haven't cracked it yet how to do it perfectly. What helps: view the problem as improving your likelihood to sleep. Before I viewed the problem as falling asleep 100% of the time, which is a really defeating view to have when I can't fall asleep. Sleep tips that help me: 1. meditation: still experimenting with body-scan vs. breath meditation, they both help but have different effects…

Running works wonders for me: helps mood, sleep and energy right away. I run 3-5 miles almost every day and the following morning I wake up refreshed and in a good mood. The effect wears out after a day or two so you have to do it often.

Distance is not that important - what matters is time and intensity: run at least 20m with 10 of them near your upper limit. Make sure you pick a sustainable pace that makes it hard but not impossible to breath. Don't compare to others - your body needs to be challenged relative to itself. Run comfortably for 10 minutes then a little more than slightly uncomfortably for another 10.

You will feel better as soon as you stop. You will feel calmer, focused, confident and strong for hours after. You will feel better next day. When I had a bad funk it helped me get out of it.

I tried a lot of other forms of exercise from weights and swimming and HIIT and martial arts and yoga. They all help (in other ways) but not as well as running. If you can, complement it with weights 1-2 a week, and yoga 1-2 times as well.

Re: Nootropics

#255

Post by orangecat »

hasbroslasher wrote: post #123

So you're telling me you alter your biochemistry to become more productive without a care for how it affects your overall (mostly mental) health? Hell, I started smoking cigarettes at 16, which I rank near the top of my worst decisions ever, despite the fact that it helped me hack my brain chemistry as I powered through numerous difficult math and CS classes with top scores. As a result, I spent years thrashing, kick…

To me, the entire idea of performance-enhancing chemicals is the essence of Moloch

Moloch specifically refers to zero-sum games. Intelligence enhancement is not that; if everyone in the world gained 10 IQ points we would almost certainly be far better off.

To what ends?

Curing cancer and Alzheimer's, getting self-driving cars on the road by 2025 instead of 2030, colonizing Mars, figuring out how to fix our diets without requiring infinite willpower, etc, etc.

Re: Nootropics

#256

Post by imagist »

Galaxeblaffer wrote: post #251

Wow.. This dude.. I've tested a couple of the mentioned drugs myself and thought i'd chip in with my results and learnings Modafinil/Armodafinil Definitely works and the side effects are neglectable. It's much as he describes it but im not sure why he can't feel it some of the time as the effect on me is really strong, especially with armodafinil which was almost too much to be hanging around other people :) You feel…

> i've found that "microdosing" works even better than taking the "normal dose" of 2-3mg. I found a supplier in the Netherlands who sells 300ug pills and they have worked wonders for me ! works just as well as the stronger dose but it seems that the lower dose makes you sleep better.

You're not alone in this; in fact, I think it's pretty widely accepted among melatonin users that "<1mg doses work better" is just fact. The 2-3 mg dosage contained by most available supplements seems to be motivated by a misguided belief that more melatonin is more effective, in opposition to all the evidence that I've seen.

Re: Nootropics

#257

Post by bbctol »

There is a huge, huge placebo effect when it comes to cognitive enhancement, and while I understand that this is intended as a series of anecdotes, it still seems that the author doesn't fully understand this. Most notably, for his attempts at blinding himself, he doesn't seem to have measured any actual cognitive improvement, just whether or not he could successfully distinguish drug and placebo. This is a large misunderstanding of experimental design and the placebo effect; most of these drugs definitely do cause physiological effects that can be detected, and the great worry with respect to Adderall etc. effectiveness is that people confuse rapid heartrate and quickly focusing vision with increased mental ability, without actually improving much.

Re: Nootropics

#258

Post by SonicSoul »

mettamage wrote: post #94
HalfwayToDice wrote: post #74

The best nootropic is getting a good nights sleep. It takes effort! Preparing for bed early and disciplining yourself to put the light out is not easy. Not nearly as easy as popping a pill. But it's so much more effective than any drug listed here. And for a safe and provable quick cognitive boost, take some caffeine, preferable green tea with theanine.

It's hard for me to fall asleep. I haven't cracked it yet how to do it perfectly. What helps: view the problem as improving your likelihood to sleep. Before I viewed the problem as falling asleep 100% of the time, which is a really defeating view to have when I can't fall asleep. Sleep tips that help me: 1. meditation: still experimenting with body-scan vs. breath meditation, they both help but have different effects…

don't think anyone mentioned ice baths yet, but that seems to come highly recommended from people like Tim Ferris and Kevin Rose. Think TF writes it up in 4hr body. Also Rhonda Patrick is a proponent of it and you can see her thoughts on https://www.foundmyfitness.com/ (videos and podcast).

Apparently it can be quite calming.

Another thing I have not see you mention is diet. Lots of factors there. All anecdotal but i've tried raw paleo diet in the past and eating raw meat has usually given me a happy buzz during sleep while eating fruits in the evening has usually caused me issues. Everyone is different so I can't say what will work for you but it should be something you experiment with a lot.

Re: Nootropics

#259

Post by aurelianito »

kbart wrote: post #137
mettamage wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard for me to fall asleep. I haven't cracked it yet how to do it perfectly. What helps: view the problem as improving your likelihood to sleep. Before I viewed the problem as falling asleep 100% of the time, which is a really defeating view to have when I can't fall asleep. Sleep tips that help me: 1. meditation: still experimenting with body-scan vs. breath meditation, they both help but have different effects…

I've had sleep problems for years. Few simple things that usually helped me: 1) a glass of whisky. 2) sex. 3) relaxing, silent background music (Dead Can Dance is wonderful, but I guess it's a matter of taste).

All of them? In this order?

Re: Nootropics

#260

Post by naasking »

abrichr wrote: post #222
chillacy wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to offer a story of caution, and I do so with some hesitation because it sounds like it's been good for you so far. A friend of mine lost his life after committing suicide a month after starting Zoloft. His last messages to me were a discussion of what serotonin syndrome was like. He was excited and curious as always, which after reading online is common. I know I shouldn't blame the drug since he was depres…

This is a well documented reaction to the beginning of treatment for depression. Essentially the reason is that before they started treatment, they had no motivation to do anything. After they start the treatment, but before they've waited long enough to realize the benefits, they have enough motivation to end their lives.

> Essentially the reason is that before they started treatment, they had no motivation to do anything. After they start the treatment, but before they've waited long enough to realize the benefits, they have enough motivation to end their lives.

Which is why in the UK they've experimented with giving patients MDMA for an instant seratonin rush needed to curb depressive symptoms until the antidepressants kick in.

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