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Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

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Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#111

Post by ema »

harperlee wrote: post #110
ema wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, sending life to Mars, due to that radiation, would make it evolve much faster, right? The bottleneck in evolution isn't mutations but selection events (~= number of organisms).

Oh, I didn't know that. But wouldn't a larger mutation probability result in more variability and hence quicker findings of improvement paths? (plus avoiding local maxima)

Sure more variability means stronger selection, but bigger mutations are less likely to be positive mutations so more selection events need to be spend to get them out of the gene pool again.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#112

Post by oniony »

perilunar wrote: post #81
grondilu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thought about that as well. There's a nice PBS Space Time episode where they invented a word about it : "surfacism". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ5KV3rzuag

O'Neill wasn't talking about the clouds of Venus though, he was talking about colonies in orbit or beyond, made from materials mined from asteroids.

Mars is a stepping stone, both figuratively and literally.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#113

Post by gambiting »

perilunar wrote: post #57
gambiting wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's literally 0 chance that mining anything on Mars and bringing it back to Earth would be profitable. Obviously mining is still going to be important to build things on Mars, but sending any metals over, no matter how rare, is just crazy.

Maybe not Mars, but asteroids definitely. Platinum is $33k per kg. Bringing back a tonne would net you $33 million.

If you bring back a tonne it would make the value plummet. And $33 million is still more than your average space mission, and this wouldn't be an average space mission.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#115

Post by zer0gravity »

danblick wrote: post #38

This reminds me of Astro Teller's recent article: http://qz.com/536483/why-its-compeltely-ridiculous-to-think-... """...we live on a planet that is perfect for us, and we seem to be unable to prevent ourselves from making it less and less habitable. We’re like a bunch of teenagers destroying our parents’ mansion in one long, crazy party, figuring that our backup plan is to run into the forest and build our own house.…

If Musk is able to do it, then he will beat all the governments from Earth. However, I expect to see a lot of politics in this. It's just too an important of an issue to remain uncontrolled.

I dunno, maybe we should work on our social decision making process as well, not just on technology. Progress is a function of both and we seem to be leaving the social one behind.

Maybe we should be working to transition to a kind of direct democracy, or a more evolved form with the help of technology. Leaving all the power in the hands of a few doesn't seem to do much good in the long run...

Or maybe we should count on Elon to do this as well, as he promised, once he becomes king of Mars...

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#116

Post by watwatwatwat »

zer0gravity wrote: post #115
danblick wrote: post #38

This reminds me of Astro Teller's recent article: http://qz.com/536483/why-its-compeltely-ridiculous-to-think-... """...we live on a planet that is perfect for us, and we seem to be unable to prevent ourselves from making it less and less habitable. We’re like a bunch of teenagers destroying our parents’ mansion in one long, crazy party, figuring that our backup plan is to run into the forest and build our own house.…

If Musk is able to do it, then he will beat all the governments from Earth. However, I expect to see a lot of politics in this. It's just too an important of an issue to remain uncontrolled. I dunno, maybe we should work on our social decision making process as well, not just on technology. Progress is a function of both and we seem to be leaving the social one behind. Maybe we should be working to transition to a ki…

The problem is not the kind of democracy, those are just definitions. Is that people don't care (not about their privacy, not about earth, not about anything). And sincerely why should I care? I'm going to die in 50/60 years. I exploit others as much as I can then farewell.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#117

Post by perilunar »

oniony wrote: post #112
perilunar wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

O'Neill wasn't talking about the clouds of Venus though, he was talking about colonies in orbit or beyond, made from materials mined from asteroids.

Mars is a stepping stone, both figuratively and literally.

The asteroids are the stepping stones. Mars is more like a small hole.

Obligatory XKCD: https://www.xkcd.com/681/

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#118

Post by restalis »

kseistrup wrote: post #91
restalis wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most activities we embark on, none of us is ready for. We just jump in and learn on the fly, the journey itself transforms and adapts us. So, maybe we haven't learned enough about taking care of a planet, but that's not a reason to hold ourselves back ...isn't it?

Perhaps not, I just don't see anything good coming out of it.

We'll learn something. That's always a good thing.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#119

Post by googletazer »

watwatwatwat wrote: post #116
zer0gravity wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Musk is able to do it, then he will beat all the governments from Earth. However, I expect to see a lot of politics in this. It's just too an important of an issue to remain uncontrolled. I dunno, maybe we should work on our social decision making process as well, not just on technology. Progress is a function of both and we seem to be leaving the social one behind. Maybe we should be working to transition to a ki…

The problem is not the kind of democracy, those are just definitions. Is that people don't care (not about their privacy, not about earth, not about anything). And sincerely why should I care? I'm going to die in 50/60 years. I exploit others as much as I can then farewell.

working a managerial role?

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#120

Post by mattashii »

JBReefer wrote: post #32
bryanlarsen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amassing great wealth implies that metals and barren lands on Earth are currently rare & expensive. They're not. Metals: choose an elemental metal you think is rare. Look up it's Wikipedia entry, and look at its availability. It will be expressed in terms of a percentage of the earth's crust, something like 0.01%. Multiply that by 2.6*10^22 kg and realize that we're not going to run out of it any time soon, nor is it…

And the weather is much nicer, even in Saskatchewan! You get all the air you can breath! Honestly though - isn't Venus more likely to take well to terraforming

The problem with Venus is that the atmospheric pressure at surface level is about 92 times that of earth, the surface temperature is 735 K, and the atmosphere contains 96.5% carbon dioxide, while also containing significant amounts of sulfur dioxide. This is even more toxic than the Martian atmosphere.

If you want to terraform Venus to a (human livable) state you'd probably need to give it a solar shade to cool the planet to decent temperatures, shrub the 4.6 10^17 tonnes of carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and remove those 7.210^13 tonnes of sulfur dioxide.

edit Also, please note that Venus has a 117 earth day solar day, while the Martian solar day is only 24h 37m.

Sources: wikipedia, google, calculator

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