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Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

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Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#301
post #13

Just out of curiosity, what's the rationale for MS & Lenovo to do this, why to risk PR? The number of people wanting to install Linux is marginal and they are already "on the wrong side".

The year of Linux on the desktop was 2007. That's when netbooks first showed up, and manufacturers put them out with Linux on because an XP license cost so much relative to the cost of the gadget. This was the first time MS had to treat Linux as an actual direct competitor.

True. And Microsoft responded with a ULCPC (Ultra Low Cost PC) version of XP that cost them $11-$16 or so -- which they could easily get back by installing crapware.

This left Linux with no cost advantage on parts, or a negative cost advantage, if you added more crapware.

The much higher costs of shipping Linux then killed off the Linux netbooks.

The higher costs included extra testing and parts qualification, extra shipping and advertising costs, and, in particular, massively increased support costs. (One Linux user support call wiped out the profit margin on multiple sales.)

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#302
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said I was running Fedora 24 on an X260, implied that it's on metal. However, I also want to run VirtualBox inside Fedora, because my job requires me to have a Windows VM. And VirtualBox has its own kernel modules, with SecureBoot they need to be signed. Unfortunately the poor UEFI implementation Lenovo has provided won't let me enter my own MOKs into the UEFI because coincidentally that little write call is missin…

Why don't you use KVM/libvirt instead of Vbox?

I've been leaning that way lately, having only just tried kvm virtualization on a server at home.

The discovery of kimchi made me try KVM and it's a very nice web gui for home use, or laptop use. So yes I might just replace VirtualBox with kvm soon. I just have no experience with the guest drivers for Windows provided by libvirt.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#303
post #100
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TVs, mobile phones and consoles didn't start their journeys are portable and free to modify devices as PCs did.

Neither did home computers (Personal Computers), only the IBM PC clones did thanks to Compaq and their reverse engineering process not being invalidated in court.

Well, the IBM PC followed a generation of 8-bit CP/M microcomputers that were pretty much open.... though they were mainly used by businesses rather than home users.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a Lenovo X1 Carbon (most recent gen) and really regret it for a great many reasons. Wish I had gone for the XPS. Actually what swayed me was the very slightly larger screen.

I think you can get 15" models from Dell under their "Project Sputnik" program too, well worth following Barton's blog for news on that: http://bartongeorge.io/

I bought the normal 15" XPS with Windows recently. Ubuntu 16.04 has gone on it fairly well. It does sound like that is the first version that works correctly, though; you can find a lot of complaints on the net about older versions having serious issues. Ubuntu can't seem to control the backlight, but "xbacklight" does, so it's not a driver thing. I presume other similarly recent distros with similar drivers will work. (I wanted a Windows install for gaming.) For this post I just tried the webcam for the first time; as reviews note it's sort of a nostril-cam and I also noticed if you're typing your fingers loom large, but I don't use it much. I haven't tried the Thunderbolt or "true" USB3, because I don't have any hardware for the fancy ports. I did get the HDMI out to work in Linux. I haven't screwed with the dual-graphics card setup at all, and it seems to work, in the sense that it isn't causing me any trouble. I haven't directly timed the battery but it's getting at least decent life. (I also pre-emptively replaced the wireless card with https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0167N9R8E/ref=oh_aui_deta... , so I guess I can't promise the broadcom works out of the box.)

I did have the motherboard die on this three weeks in, though, which has been frustrating. When it works it's a nice system, a nice counter to the trend of everything being made out of cheap plastic. You can get nicer specs for the same price but it'll be a physically cheaper machine.

I've actually had more trouble with the Windows side in terms of drivers. The parathetically-aforementioned pre-emptive replacement of the wireless was on the advice of a coworker who had trouble with the card in Windows. When you turn off the RAID so you can install Linux, the NVMe drivers in Windows become unstable. Some people apparently install the Samsung 950 Pro drivers, which can then have its own problems because of hardware mismatch; I accidentally resolved this problem by purchasing a Samsung 950 Pro anyhow. (I wanted a nice flash drive but didn't want to spend the $$$ upgrading all the other things in the pre-packaged configurations. Plus they don't say what their flash drive is, it's probably not as good.) Also it seems to help if you remove the Dell drivers for the headphone port and revert to the reference drivers, as otherwise the machine can hang when you plug headphones in under load. Which is sorta dumb. I recommend making the first thing you do with the system to build a Windows 10 install image and then make a clean install after turning off the RAID, but be sure to bundle the drivers on the Dell webpage onto the install media, particularly the wireless ones. (I didn't know this at the time, but apparently Windows 10 has licenses stored on the motherboard now, so you don't have to hassle with license keys. It just installs.) Apparently there's some way with fighting through the RAID setting change to repair the system but a clean install is nice for other reasons. (Not too much crapware, but, still.)

I will agree that the previous is a potentially frustrating set of issues for either OS for a brand new, high-end laptop. I'm used to beating my laptops into submission anyhow since I run my own quirky XMonad install and other such things, so getting this all slick was just par for the course for me. Assuming this stays working I'm quite happy with it (I'm even really liking the keyboard which a lot of people complain about, so YMMV), but it certainly could have been a nicer experience.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#305
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither did home computers (Personal Computers), only the IBM PC clones did thanks to Compaq and their reverse engineering process not being invalidated in court.

Well, the IBM PC followed a generation of 8-bit CP/M microcomputers that were pretty much open.... though they were mainly used by businesses rather than home users.

Hence why I specifically mentioned home computers.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#307
post #228

The worst part is the reaction from Lenovo in my opinion. They just locked the thread reporting the issue on their forum, not saying anything about the problem itself but instead threatened the community to turn the pre-approval option on. This really makes me angry and makes me want to boycott their products. I really hope this issue will spread so that Lenovo learn that they made a bad move on this one. It also mad…

> It also made me realize how important it is to have a community on which one can rely to spread problems like this one. Several people on their own can't do much against big companies, but a big tech commnity can. I never think that a support forum should be owned by the company. There is a clear conflict of interest. The company does not want you calling them out on product flaws or their behaviour, on a site that…

>Companies shouldn't run their support forums. Instead, companies should offer a better level of support by default.

To clarify, by "run" do you mean "have one" (that they therefore by definition operate) or do you mean exercise moderator power over?

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#309
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low level customer support agent is probably working off a script.

They probably looked for word linux in a script, and typed in the answer. In reality the script read, "can I buy this with linux installed?", the answer would be only "windows 10 signature edition". They probably don't even know what linux is.

Yes, and someone, not a low-level tech, wrote that script and wrote the reply:

> This system has a Signature Edition of Windows 10 Home installed. It is locked per our agreement with Microsoft.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#310
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably looked for word linux in a script, and typed in the answer. In reality the script read, "can I buy this with linux installed?", the answer would be only "windows 10 signature edition". They probably don't even know what linux is.

Yes, and someone, not a low-level tech, wrote that script and wrote the reply: > This system has a Signature Edition of Windows 10 Home installed. It is locked per our agreement with Microsoft.

They're probably only allowed to install windows at factory. Doesn't mean they've blocked it.
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