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Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

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Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#41

Post by andyjohnson0 »

rmc wrote: post #30
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not sure I want companies to have the capability to re-format entire planets. That sounds like entirely too much power for any organisation to have, if only given its potential for weaponisation. And land sale? The Outer Space Treaty [1] prohibits governments from claiming ownership of planets, so where would the authority to sell land on Mars come from? Do we really want companies to own planets? Weyland-…

> And land sale? The Outer Space Treaty [1] prohibits governments from claiming ownership of planets, so where would the authority to sell land on Mars come from? Possession is 11 tenths of the law. The Treaty of Tordesillas gave the modern USA to Spain. How'd that go?

> Possession is 11 tenths of the law.

Thats the problem that the OST tries to address. If more than one party claims possession of a territory (say Mars) then they can either settle things legally or with gunboats (err.. space battle cruisers). Given the absence of an off-Earth legal system to adjudicate, and with no compelling need to create one then or now, conflict would therefore be a likely outcome. So the OST just tries to defer the problem for a while. At some point, extraterrestrial territorial claims will need to be settled though.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#42

Post by restalis »

3pt14159 wrote: post #18
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not sure I want companies to have the capability to re-format entire planets. That sounds like entirely too much power for any organisation to have, if only given its potential for weaponisation. And land sale? The Outer Space Treaty [1] prohibits governments from claiming ownership of planets, so where would the authority to sell land on Mars come from? Do we really want companies to own planets? Weyland-…

The Outer Space Treaty was written with the party states knowing that it was a medium term measure. Capitalism will come to The Moon, Mars, and Venus. It will start with people just building wherever there is available land, like we did on the frontier, then once a couple thousand or a couple hundred thousand people are in outer space a new treaty will be formed around the political realities of the day.

"Capitalism will come to The Moon, Mars, and Venus."

The thing is that the order on which capitalism relies on to exist is not uphold outside the recognized international treaties. So, good luck on defending whatever ownership claims you have or you'll just have to submit to whoever can reach you and has more power than you. Also, it's kind of pointless for a government on Earth to claim ownership of outer space unless the means of maintaining permanent connections with said properties will significantly change. Think about what kind of connection you'll have with "yours" when it takes years to step from one part to another of the same country with nothing in between.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#43

Post by grondilu »

espadrine wrote: post #20
tehmillhouse wrote: post #2

Judging by the preview image for the live stream (yeah, I wish I had more to go on, too), this looks to be a long-haul plan for terraforming mars. I wouldn't hold my breath for the first actual settlements up there. That being said: Yes. Oh yes. Fuck yes. All my yesses.

I love the idea BUT… If we can't terraform Earth's deserts, do we really stand a chance with Mars? I might be mistaken in my analysis. Still, the only way a colony might survive seems to be by sending tremendous amounts of resources to Mars yearly. They can never hope to be self-sustaining until either astronomically large amounts of time or astronomically large amounts of energy are spent.

> If we can't terraform Earth's deserts, do we really stand a chance with Mars?

To be fair, it can be done and it is slowly being done in some countries. It's still very difficult and expensive, though. That being said, indeed doing it on mars would be orders of magnitude more difficult.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#44

Post by kseistrup »

Humans belong to one of the most, if not THE most, destructive species on Earth. We exploit all resources we can lay our hands on and destroy plants and animals in the wake of our immense and selfish greed. We would serve the Universe best if we stayed here on Earth, and possibly even obliterated ourselves.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#45

Post by apatters »

tehmillhouse wrote: post #2

Judging by the preview image for the live stream (yeah, I wish I had more to go on, too), this looks to be a long-haul plan for terraforming mars. I wouldn't hold my breath for the first actual settlements up there. That being said: Yes. Oh yes. Fuck yes. All my yesses.

I'm just as impressed by SpaceX's achievements as the next guy but the Musk fanboyism is really getting out of control here. He's not going to terraform Mars, because we have no idea how to do it, the cost would likely be measurable in "percentage of all human GDP" terms, and it would take longer than a single human life, it'd probably have to be the longest-haul plan humanity had ever undertaken. If the announcement actually broaches the subject of terraforming it'll be the definition of vaporware.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#46

Post by DanielBMarkham »

harperlee wrote: post #37
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a high chance. Earth has a molten core, which generates a magnetic field that shields us from harmful cosmic rays. It's been like this for so long that we've evolved to require this shielding. Mars has less of a molten core, and a very weak magnetosphere. Therefore outdoor terraforming seems unlikely. We may have to walk around on Mars inside shielded colonies only, along with whatever other life we bring: plants…

So could we engineer ourselves to be able to withstand more radiation? Perhaps with advances in cancer treatment and CRISPR-style modifications on the most fragile parts of the genome we can make us more resilient so we can become a multiplanetary species... On the other hand, sending life to Mars, due to that radiation, would make it evolve much faster, right? Perhaps we can start terraforming it and study the evolu…

I'm not sure of the exact amount, but water can be used for shielding.

So maybe we end up with huge domes made of tanks with 20' of water in them.

Also, since Mars has CO2, I'm guessing once a dome is up, we simply pressurize it with the surrounding atmosphere? Once pressurized we could use O2 tanks and cannulas, or add plants?

I fear that there is going to be a huge political debate first -- a lot of folks are going to say that man isn't worthy/able/competent/etc to colonize another planet.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#47

Post by noir_lord »

kseistrup wrote: post #44

Humans belong to one of the most, if not THE most, destructive species on Earth. We exploit all resources we can lay our hands on and destroy plants and animals in the wake of our immense and selfish greed. We would serve the Universe best if we stayed here on Earth, and possibly even obliterated ourselves.

I'm on the other side of this one, while I think it's stupid to wreck the Earth because we need it I don't see why we shouldn't expand out and use the resources, they are just rocks waiting for us to do something with them.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#48

Post by Paul_S »

kseistrup wrote: post #44

Humans belong to one of the most, if not THE most, destructive species on Earth. We exploit all resources we can lay our hands on and destroy plants and animals in the wake of our immense and selfish greed. We would serve the Universe best if we stayed here on Earth, and possibly even obliterated ourselves.

When you put it like that, you're right. Humans are awesome.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#49

Post by lsaferite »

harperlee wrote: post #37
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a high chance. Earth has a molten core, which generates a magnetic field that shields us from harmful cosmic rays. It's been like this for so long that we've evolved to require this shielding. Mars has less of a molten core, and a very weak magnetosphere. Therefore outdoor terraforming seems unlikely. We may have to walk around on Mars inside shielded colonies only, along with whatever other life we bring: plants…

So could we engineer ourselves to be able to withstand more radiation? Perhaps with advances in cancer treatment and CRISPR-style modifications on the most fragile parts of the genome we can make us more resilient so we can become a multiplanetary species... On the other hand, sending life to Mars, due to that radiation, would make it evolve much faster, right? Perhaps we can start terraforming it and study the evolu…

I just read they sequenced the Tardigrade DNA and have found a protein that protects against X-ray related DNA damage.

> Using human cultured cells, we demonstrate that a tardigrade-unique DNA-associating protein suppresses X-ray-induced DNA damage by ~40% and improves radiotolerance. These findings indicate the relevance of tardigrade-unique proteins to tolerability and tardigrades could be a bountiful source of new protection genes and mechanisms.

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2016/160920/ncomms12808/full/nc...

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#50

Post by eli_gottlieb »

danblick wrote: post #38

This reminds me of Astro Teller's recent article: http://qz.com/536483/why-its-compeltely-ridiculous-to-think-... """...we live on a planet that is perfect for us, and we seem to be unable to prevent ourselves from making it less and less habitable. We’re like a bunch of teenagers destroying our parents’ mansion in one long, crazy party, figuring that our backup plan is to run into the forest and build our own house.…

I think Teller really ought to blame the system and leaders who can actually change environmental policies rather than, you know, our whole species.
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