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Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

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Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#31

Post by bryanlarsen »

flexie wrote: post #7

Imagine the wealth a company could amass if it succeeded in terraforming mars. Rare metals, sale of land etc. This is one of those markets where you have rather high barriers to entry.

Amassing great wealth implies that metals and barren lands on Earth are currently rare & expensive. They're not.

Metals: choose an elemental metal you think is rare. Look up it's Wikipedia entry, and look at its availability. It will be expressed in terms of a percentage of the earth's crust, something like 0.01%. Multiply that by 2.6*10^22 kg and realize that we're not going to run out of it any time soon, nor is it rare. It may be expensive to mine, but compared to the cost of transporting on rockets? Cheap.

Land: you can buy prime farmland in Saskatchewan, Canada for USD500 per acre.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#32

Post by JBReefer »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #31
flexie wrote: post #7

Imagine the wealth a company could amass if it succeeded in terraforming mars. Rare metals, sale of land etc. This is one of those markets where you have rather high barriers to entry.

Amassing great wealth implies that metals and barren lands on Earth are currently rare & expensive. They're not. Metals: choose an elemental metal you think is rare. Look up it's Wikipedia entry, and look at its availability. It will be expressed in terms of a percentage of the earth's crust, something like 0.01%. Multiply that by 2.6*10^22 kg and realize that we're not going to run out of it any time soon, nor is it…

And the weather is much nicer, even in Saskatchewan! You get all the air you can breath!

Honestly though - isn't Venus more likely to take well to terraforming

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#33

Post by lmm »

espadrine wrote: post #20
tehmillhouse wrote: post #2

Judging by the preview image for the live stream (yeah, I wish I had more to go on, too), this looks to be a long-haul plan for terraforming mars. I wouldn't hold my breath for the first actual settlements up there. That being said: Yes. Oh yes. Fuck yes. All my yesses.

I love the idea BUT… If we can't terraform Earth's deserts, do we really stand a chance with Mars? I might be mistaken in my analysis. Still, the only way a colony might survive seems to be by sending tremendous amounts of resources to Mars yearly. They can never hope to be self-sustaining until either astronomically large amounts of time or astronomically large amounts of energy are spent.

> If we can't terraform Earth's deserts, do we really stand a chance with Mars?

It's not that we couldn't, it's that we don't care to - partly because the reward isn't there, and partly because there are opposing interests. Humans absolutely have had (and are having) large-scale impact on the Earth's climate, and that's while mostly trying not to.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#34

Post by fractal618 »

arethuza wrote: post #23
espadrine wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the idea BUT… If we can't terraform Earth's deserts, do we really stand a chance with Mars? I might be mistaken in my analysis. Still, the only way a colony might survive seems to be by sending tremendous amounts of resources to Mars yearly. They can never hope to be self-sustaining until either astronomically large amounts of time or astronomically large amounts of energy are spent.

"They can never hope to be self-sustaining until either astronomically large amounts of time or astronomically large amounts of energy are spent." That might be true, but if we could divert even a small part of the global arms industry to something as constructive as colonizing a new world then I suspect we might help things here as well as achieving something wonderful. Edit: "Oh yes. Fuck yes. All my yesses" Can I…

We could do the impossible if we stopped fighting each other.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#35

Post by lmm »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #27
lhnz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm really not sure I want companies to have the capability to re-format entire planets. Does that mean you're against terraforming entirely, or would you prefer for the US/Russian/Chinese government to be the only powers allowed to do so?

I'm definitely not against terraforming, but I'd be against individual governments doing it for the same reasons that I gave for corporations. IMO it would have to be an international endeavour. Certainly wen we're talking about the solar system, where the number of candidate planets is basically two (plus Titan?). Does a Chinese planet and a US planet and a Facebook moon represent a useful and viable future? In some…

> Does a Chinese planet and a US planet and a Facebook moon represent a useful and viable future?

I'd say it's a better future than the "no terraforming at all" future. And I suspect the "wait until UN-like bodies are competent and willing to organize terraforming" future is actually the "no terraforming at all" future.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#36

Post by robryk »

fractal618 wrote: post #34
arethuza wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They can never hope to be self-sustaining until either astronomically large amounts of time or astronomically large amounts of energy are spent." That might be true, but if we could divert even a small part of the global arms industry to something as constructive as colonizing a new world then I suspect we might help things here as well as achieving something wonderful. Edit: "Oh yes. Fuck yes. All my yesses" Can I…

We could do the impossible if we stopped fighting each other.

Pesky Nash equilibria.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#37

Post by harperlee »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #26
espadrine wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the idea BUT… If we can't terraform Earth's deserts, do we really stand a chance with Mars? I might be mistaken in my analysis. Still, the only way a colony might survive seems to be by sending tremendous amounts of resources to Mars yearly. They can never hope to be self-sustaining until either astronomically large amounts of time or astronomically large amounts of energy are spent.

Not a high chance. Earth has a molten core, which generates a magnetic field that shields us from harmful cosmic rays. It's been like this for so long that we've evolved to require this shielding. Mars has less of a molten core, and a very weak magnetosphere. Therefore outdoor terraforming seems unlikely. We may have to walk around on Mars inside shielded colonies only, along with whatever other life we bring: plants…

So could we engineer ourselves to be able to withstand more radiation? Perhaps with advances in cancer treatment and CRISPR-style modifications on the most fragile parts of the genome we can make us more resilient so we can become a multiplanetary species...

On the other hand, sending life to Mars, due to that radiation, would make it evolve much faster, right? Perhaps we can start terraforming it and study the evolutions of plants and animals there to gain insight in how to overcome our frailties.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#38

Post by danblick »

This reminds me of Astro Teller's recent article:

http://qz.com/536483/why-its-compeltely-ridiculous-to-think-...

"""...we live on a planet that is perfect for us, and we seem to be unable to prevent ourselves from making it less and less habitable. We’re like a bunch of teenagers destroying our parents’ mansion in one long, crazy party, figuring that our backup plan is to run into the forest and build our own house. We’ll worry about how to get food and a good sound system later. Proponents of Mars colonization talk about “terraforming” Mars to make it more like Earth, but in the meantime, we’re “marsforming” Earth by making our atmosphere poisonous and annihilating our natural resources. We are also well on our way to making Earth one big desert, just like Mars."""

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

#39

Post by dagw »

flexie wrote: post #7

Imagine the wealth a company could amass if it succeeded in terraforming mars. Rare metals, sale of land etc. This is one of those markets where you have rather high barriers to entry.

Have you ever flown over northern Canada or northern Russia? Empty land is ridiculously plentiful on earth.
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