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Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

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Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#181

Post by davidgerard »

simbalion wrote: post #94

Blatant anti-trust violation in several nations. Microsoft has _repeatedly_ lost anti-trust lawsuits in the past 16 years for this exact sort of behavior. How is it that they have not learned their lesson? Windows 10 is failing, and now they've taken actions which will surely incur billions of dollars in fines. I would not be at all surprised if the ruling judge in the inevitable lawsuit punishes them harshly for not…

> Microsoft has _repeatedly_ lost anti-trust lawsuits in the past 16 years for this exact sort of behavior. How is it that they have not learned their lesson?

Lack of effective penalties, clearly.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#182

Post by cptskippy »

dTal wrote: post #8
voltagex_ wrote: post #4

Site is down. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fossbos... The article looks dangerously uninformed, from a brief skim. It's based on https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/53ri0m/warning_micro... I can't find any info on what SSD the Lenovo Yoga uses but if it's anything like the NVMe drive in my Dell XPS, it's just the way the card is set up. Depending on which kernel your installer is using it…

I dunno, this looks like a smoking gun: http://i1.wp.com/fossboss.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/B7g...

It is entirely possible that Microsoft asked for them to be locked down.

While OEMs try to spin crapware as a value add for the consumer, it's actually paid product placement. The OEMs make money off of installing crapware on your PC.

So, if the Signature Editions don't have crapware then that eats into the OEM's profit margins. What incentive do OEMs have to deploy the Signature Edition? Does Microsoft offer it at a lower cost? Do they pay OEMs to make Signature Editions?

It's entirely possible that if Microsoft is selling the Signature Edition for less or even paying OEMs to deploy it, then they might also make greater demands about system configurations and even ask that the devices be locked.

Microsoft requires Secure Boot on all Windows machines but only requires locked firmware on Mobile/RT devices. It's possible they could require locked firmware on Signature Editions as well.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#183

Post by JorgeGT »

pjmlp wrote: post #102
shmerl wrote: post #18

> Lenovo for example confirmed that they singed an agreement with Microsoft for this. If true, it's illegal product tying, and those who signed such "agreement" are violating antitrust law. Someone should sue them until they stop doing this. Lenovo are infamous for refusing to refund Windows tax until brought to court, but this is a new low for them.

And they will lose. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/09/sony-wins-pre-ins...

It is a different situation, IMHO. The guy purchased a Sony laptop with a Windows license, and pretended that by refusing the EULA he was entitled to getting the cost of the Windows license refunded. Sony refused, offering instead that he returned the laptop for a full refund. The guy refused and filled the lawsuit.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#184

Post by dr_hooo »

barrkel wrote: post #106
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was so predictable. That Linux lacks drivers for something and Microsoft somehow got the blame for it as part of some grand conspiracy? Certainly predictable for /r/linux. I thought HN was better than that.

Read this subthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12546250 With a tweaked BIOS (one that permits the AHCI setting), Linux can be installed.

> after manually flashing a modded BIOS by soldering chip programming hardware

I would classify this as a hack rather than "can be installed"

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#186

Post by minikites »

makaronin wrote: post #172
xg15 wrote: post #47

The other HN thread suggests this not actually a dark conspiracy by Microsoft but simply a case of missing linux drivers for the storage devices. This sounds believable to me. But I'll put my tinfoil hat on just for fun and pretend it was an intentional move. Could this make sense as a new twist on the old strategy, making it "Embrace, Extinguish, Extend"? With the WSL, they made it theoretically possible to run Linu…

If you read the original reddit thread, you would understand that this is not just a drivers issue. Lenovo intentionally programmed their BIOS so that it reverts any changes to RAID mode making it impossible to install Linux.

Or the bug is that it fails to properly store the initial change?

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#187

Post by coldtea »

0x0 wrote: post #20

So they did lie when they said "Microsoft Loves Linux". https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/windowsserver/2015/05/06... Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

>So they did lie when they said "Microsoft Loves Linux".

No, the title and "secret agreement" theory is just BS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

>Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

MS hasn't been the boss of anyone much ever since 2005 or so...

http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#188

Post by dagw »

hatmatrix wrote: post #101
kennell wrote: post #93

Amazing how Lenovo managed to turn "Thinkpad", a respected and loved brand name, into shit within just a few years.

Most of the problems are with the non-Thinkpad line, no?

It's worse with the non-Thinkpad line, but even the Thinkpads are getting worse. They've also started to add new laptops to the Thinkpad line, like the Thinkpad 11, which have nothing to do with the original line and are pure low-end Lenovo crap.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#189

Post by coldtea »

CommanderData wrote: post #185

This is shocking. I was looking for an ultrabook and the Lenovo Yoga series 700 or 900 series appealed to me. Learning this I don't know what to do now.

>This is shocking.

No, the fact that people would believe some conspiracy with the specific intent of locking Linux is the case is shocking.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#190

Post by userbinator »

I wonder what happens if you try to boot DOS (e.g. from USB) on current hardware, including these laptops.

My newest laptop isn't that new; it's an IBM x60 (the famous one with the fully free BIOS available, although I haven't switched... yet) and it does run DOS perfectly well. When I replaced the HDD with an SSD all I had to do was image the partition over to the new one and everything just worked. I've run Linux and even OS X(!) on it.

But from the experiences I've seen of people with newer hardware, including articles like this and the other one about new CPUs and Windows 10, it appears newer PCs are becoming far more closed and proprietary, and that's definitely NOT a good thing.

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