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Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

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Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#131

Post by barrkel »

potatolicious wrote: post #80
tedunangst wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't an indie developer use a game engine written in C, C++, or Objective-C?

Nearly every major game engine out there uses scripting for actual game logic - it decouples the engine from game code, which is desirable (no rebuilds to alter basic game behavior, for example, enabling faster turnarounds and prototyping). Hell, the most popular game engine of our day (Unreal) uses its own proprietary JavaScript-like language for nearly all game code. Other engines like Gamebryo leverage Lua extensi…

For the record, UnrealScript is closer to Java or C# than JavaScript.

As an aside, it has some very interesting support for simultaneously running the same code in two network locations, with the authoritative version updating the non-authoritative ones after a network sync, to help eliminate some of the drawbacks of network lag. Also, modal behaviours (used for AI that needs to do different things when touched etc. depending on its state).

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#132

Post by tptacek »

skywalker wrote: post #110
tptacek wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to be so presumptious but I don't think you've thought this through. Microsoft threatened to drive companies out of the computer industry . There are still plenty of other viable mobile platforms to develop for if the iPhone doesn't work out for you.

What I mean is that it is much more than "you may only use Objective C to develop on this device". You also haven't thought this through. It has many more long term implications than the language choice. And we have a disagreement about what viable mobile platform means. For example, "Gameloft sells 400 times more games on iPhone than it does on Android." http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/29757/gameloft-cutting-andro..…

When the iPhone has 70% of the market, instead of the ~25% it apparently has now, your argument will make sense to me. Until then, you seem to think that Apple has additional responsibilities to the market simply because they're the best current platform. Being the best doesn't mean that.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#133

Post by Jeema3000 »

rbanffy wrote: post #116
peterarmstrong wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make it anything short of disgusting -- it's worse than anything MS ever did.

> it's worse than anything MS ever did. Perhaps for some values of "ever". Now, seriously, this is a boneheaded, monopoly-exploiting, move. If Apple wanted to one-up Microsoft, they would demand that every cell-phone operator that sells iPhones to drop all Android phones. On a second step, they would demand telcos to stop selling phones from manufacturers that offered Android-based phones. That would be a truly Micro…

...and then we wake up the next day and Google search and YouTube have "mysteriously stopped working" in all Safari browsers...

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#134

Post by barrkel »

ghshephard wrote: post #128
bad_user wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Barnes and Noble decides they only want to sell non-fiction books No, a better analogy is if Barnes and Noble decides they only want to sell creationism books.

That's an excellent analogy. Those of us who prefer science based books would go elsewhere, while those who loved the comforting and protected "Creationist" environment would find a good home at B&N. Science Based authors aren't owed a living by B&N, and would have to sell their books elsewhere.

On the other hand, you would have a corporation actively engaged in trying to mislead the public and stifle the truth.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#135

Post by thenduks »

wvenable wrote: post #61
thenduks wrote: post #38

I don't get this at all. Why does everyone act like the iPhone should be as 'open' as an OS on your computer? Did everyone forget that when the iPhone shipped you couldn't write apps at all ? You can't write apps in Erlang for your Zune, your PS3, your cable modem, your microwave, your car or your apartments alarm system... no one cares. Yes, Apple wants (insists, even, if this ToS becomes final) you to use their too…

"Did everyone forget that when the iPhone shipped you couldn't write apps at all?" Yup. And did you forget all the complaints about that too and then the jailbreaking and then the development of apps without any SDK at all? You have to wonder if Apple would have ever created the app store if programmers hadn't done all that. "Why does everyone act like the iPhone should be as 'open' as an OS on your computer?" Why sh…

Considering the level of polish on the Cocoa Touch frameworks and the surrounding tools at release I'd say Apple was planning the AppStore long before the mob started RABBLE-RABBLE-ing about it.

Still, I am absolutely not saying you shouldn't be allowed to complain. My point is only that I don't see what there is to complain about. I wouldn't complain about this any more than I would about not being able to write apps for my current crappy cellphone. It isn't even that bad though, of course, because you can write apps for the iPhone, just not in arbitrary ways that Apple doesn't approve of.

Anyway, it's ok that we don't agree -- it seems, at this time, that Apple and I are on the same page... We'll see if things change or not. I am obviously all for Apple being more open in general (having to use a Windows VM to sync my iPod is a huge pain in my ass, for example), I'm just not losing any sleep over it.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#136

Post by krschultz »

rimantas wrote: post #114
jrockway wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not Apple's iPhone team. Clang is some crazy engineers at Apple. Apple's new policies are straight from the top.

The parent talked about Apple. So did I. By the way, what are your sources? You look so damn well informed about what's going on at Apple.

Have you read the damn article at all? Source to source compilers are now against the TOS. Sure you can do it and how would Apple know - but commercially you can't advertise a tool that does it. Forget what's going on INSIDE Apple, people are pissed off about what Apple is trying to do to those on the outside.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#137

Post by rokhayakebe »

cousin_it wrote: post #105
michael_dorfman wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Steve's response, I imagine would be: if you want to sell your app in my store, it's my business. If you don't like my rules, develop for a different platform. Seriously: if Barnes and Noble decides it only wants to sell fiction by authors whose last names begin with "Q", wouldn't we just consider it a bone-headed move, and not the cause for moral outrage? The iPhone is not the only smartphone on the market, and…

I really can't see why folks are getting their knickers in a twist. Your use of demeaning language doesn't make your opponents wrong. wouldn't we just consider it a bone-headed move, and not the cause for moral outrage? It's both. Legality != morality. A business practice can be perfectly legal but immoral. Of course you can say anything Apple does is moral because it's within their rights, but there are also other w…

Your use of demeaning language doesn't make your opponents wrong.

Did you read the original comment he was responding to?

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#138

Post by krschultz »

rimantas wrote: post #119
reynolds wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessarily Flash that's fundamental in computer science. It's compiler technology that's the computer science part.

And apple is doing a lot in that field: Clang, LLVM, Grand Central Dispatch, OpenCL. Amazing how many fail to see the forest behind the tree. Apple releases iPad and that's the end of computers, Apple bans Flash, and suddenly it's shutting down CS.

General Motors did some cool research projects with fuel cell cars, their core products are still gas guzzling trucks.

When you say Apple which comes up in people's mind first, the iPhone, or Clang? Seriously.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#139

Post by thenduks »

bad_user wrote: post #129
thenduks wrote: post #38

I don't get this at all. Why does everyone act like the iPhone should be as 'open' as an OS on your computer? Did everyone forget that when the iPhone shipped you couldn't write apps at all ? You can't write apps in Erlang for your Zune, your PS3, your cable modem, your microwave, your car or your apartments alarm system... no one cares. Yes, Apple wants (insists, even, if this ToS becomes final) you to use their too…

Everyday I see iPhone this and IPad that. I think some people like getting abused by Apple. Apple should do well to remember that they need us more than we need them. It's the availability of apps that makes or breaks any OS. And you know what? In my country the iPhone is only popular with the tech crowd. Nokia is the leader here, and Vodafone (the largest mobile operator here and the direct competitor to Orange, whi…

This article is about 'Steve Jobs' 'going crazy' and doing this 'insane' thing preventing developers from using any old random dev environment to make apps for it's walled garden.

The iPhone isn't very popular where I live at all because the cell companies are crazy rip-off artists... that's has nothing to do with this.

Besides that, regular people (say, my mom) don't give a crap if I wasn't allowed to use ActionScript to write my app or not so what exactly is Apple doing to abuse people? Are they abusing developers? Well, they are limiting them pretty heavily, that's true -- but abusing? Hardly. As you said, Apple can 'fuck off' and surprise surprise that's exactly what Apple is saying to you (figurative 'you', the developer who wants to use AS3, say) - "If you don't like ToS you are required to agree to then don't agree to it."

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#140

Post by commieneko »

j-g-faustus wrote: post #49
commieneko wrote: post #2

No, Steve Jobs is not insane, this interpretation of the new rule is insane. Apple is merely (!) trying to control what tools people use to create software on their platform. I can understand why they want to do this, just as I can understand why I might, or might not want to comply. The legal terms used are to give Apple the tools it needs to get compliance. The only real issue is: do you want to develop for this pl…

> I can understand why they want to do this I can't. Except as a land- and power grab in the "all your toil are belong to us" category. I can understand that Apple attempts a strategic move to avoid becoming just another platform for Flash. I can understand that Apple may want to cut down on the number of submissions, and are assuming that those that go to the trouble of learning Objective-C/C/C++ are the "real profe…

You seem to understand _many_ reasons why Apple would want to do this. Apple has every right to sell its stuff with whatever kind of license they want. Just as you (and I) have every right not to develop for them.

The thing is that, for now, Apple is selling something that _many_ people want to buy, and that _many_ people want to develop for. So they have the upper hand. Nothing illegal or crazy about it. Now certainly things can change in the future and they _might_ become more accommodating.

Complaining about probably helps a little. Not developing for it helps more. Not buying the hard helps a lot, but the developer community is _much_ smaller than the consumer community...

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