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iTunes will never work well

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Re: iTunes will never work well

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, even Google has terrible UI/UX these days. Just look at Google Maps or Gmail. Material design isn't that great for discoverability either.

What's wrong with Google Maps? I've just been watching a non-technical friend use it and the only thing that wasn't intuitive was adding an extra stop to her trip (and even then, she discovered it without needing to search for help).

So tell me how am I supposed to find a route between x and y from my phone without being on x or y first?

It is doable, but how is it supposed to be done?

(For context: IIRC there used to be a shortcut to navigation for that feature. And yes I think ux designers mindlessly copying each others or Apple are at least partially to blame.(

Re: iTunes will never work well

#93
Do you still have to use iTunes to transfer music to iPhones? Can't you just copy files over and use some other playback app on the iPhone? The author sounds makes it sound like they are "forced" to use iTunes.

(disclaimer: the newest Apple product I own was manufactured in 1983)

Re: iTunes will never work well

#94

Do you still have to use iTunes to transfer music to iPhones? Can't you just copy files over and use some other playback app on the iPhone? The author sounds makes it sound like they are "forced" to use iTunes. (disclaimer: the newest Apple product I own was manufactured in 1983)

As far as I know, yes. If there's another way, they don't make it obvious.

Re: iTunes will never work well

#95
post #11

i don't understand how apple have a reputation for good ui... all of their stuff is terrible. the main problem: zero discoverablity - i need to google how to do things, then get some snotty fanboy answer about how easy and obvious it is, but there is literally no way to infer the functionality from the design. they do love to steal context too... and interrupt your flow... ... i could go on and on, but having zero-di…

Their reputation stemmed from the days where everything was discoverable. Want to delete a file? There's a trash can glued to your dock. Need to perform a function but don't know the name? Look it up in the Help menu's search box. Now, though, they've done the Windows 8 thing of overloading gestures and hiding behaviors. Want to see your notifications? Two-finger swipe to the left, starting from the edge of the touch…

a) If you want to see notifications click the button in the top, right corner where it's always been.

b) Apple has not changed the behaviour of buttons on OSX. They still look like they always have.

c) Computing resources are not finite like oil. It's there to be used.

d) Which gestures are available has always been in the Trackpad system preference which has videos to show you how to use them.

Re: iTunes will never work well

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, even Google has terrible UI/UX these days. Just look at Google Maps or Gmail. Material design isn't that great for discoverability either.

What's wrong with Google Maps? I've just been watching a non-technical friend use it and the only thing that wasn't intuitive was adding an extra stop to her trip (and even then, she discovered it without needing to search for help).

They added the feature that used to bug me the most: when I search, my saved locations now get preferential treatment.

And, yet, the maps themselves are worse: they changed the algorithm for which labels are displayed, making it impossible to cause some street names to appear.

Re: iTunes will never work well

#97
Okay. I get annoyed by things in iTunes and think the whole application really is overdue for replacement -- I'd like to see things split up somewhat more like iOS, with a "Music" app, a "Video" app and (since this is the desktop) a device management app. But I confess that a lot of the lamentations about the UI design (not necessarily the UX design, which I'll circle back to in a moment) strike me as, well, highly overblown. I'm sorry the author couldn't figure out how to make songs repeat, for instance, but while the repeat icon has moved in newer versions of iTunes, it's literally the same icon as in the screenshot of iTunes 4 from a decade ago. (That's the earliest screenshot I could find.) And perhaps the Windows version of iTunes is uniquely horrible compared to the OS X, er, macOS version, but I can type the name of a song into search and have it instantly located; if I double-click a track name (or the big play arrow that shows up when I hover by it!) it just starts playing, but it certainly won't select a rating or a heart unless I click a star or a heart; so on and so forth.

I'd really argue the biggest problem with iTunes' UX stems from the way it's still, after all this time, inexplicably modal. I've never had a problem syncing an iOS device while it's playing music, as one commenter mentioned, but there are dialog boxes it brings up that are not only UI-blocking but process-blocking, which makes iTunes kind of a mess as a headless media server. (It still plays media, but won't be able to add any until the dialog box is dismissed.)

But I still cut iTunes a fair amount of slack. I've been using it for nearly as long as it's been available, I've subscribed to iTunes Match, I've subscribed to Apple Music, and I've ripped my own music library full of lossless tracks. Not only has Apple not, repeat, not, either deleted those or fiendishly replaced the files with AAC simulacra, it turns out to handle mixing my ripped tracks, purchased tracks, and "borrowed" tracks (i.e., ones that are only available in my library through the Apple Music subscription) pretty seamlessly. The introduction of Apple Music was a huge mess, admittedly, both in terms of UX and some teeth-grindingly poor song-matching algorithms (a distinct regression from iTunes Match on its own) -- but the server-side flubs seem to be straightened out now, and the current UI for Apple Music is pretty solid.

But, yes, I'm sure iTunes will be rewritten. I'm also positive that when it is, there will be a veritable explosion of thinkpieces that will almost all be variants of, "Who asked for all these horrible changes? iTunes was just fine! Apple is always fixing things that weren't broken! This would never have happened if Steve Jobs were still alive!"

Re: iTunes will never work well

#98
iTunes is the worst piece of software I've come across in a long time. I banned it from my computer until I upgraded to my iPhone 7. Now, the only computer with enough disk space to accommodate my backups of 256GB is my personal desktop, so I was forced to install iTunes. It's infuriating and in the 4 years that I haven't used iTunes, it hasn't gotten any better.

I would love to blacklist whoever is responsible for iTunes from ever finding work again, because it's obvious they give an ounce of care about UI design or keeping their customers happy. They really don't deserve to be working in software. If they had any honor they would be thoroughly embarrassed for producing such a horrible piece of software.

Re: iTunes will never work well

#99
post #26
post #11

i don't understand how apple have a reputation for good ui... all of their stuff is terrible. the main problem: zero discoverablity - i need to google how to do things, then get some snotty fanboy answer about how easy and obvious it is, but there is literally no way to infer the functionality from the design. they do love to steal context too... and interrupt your flow... ... i could go on and on, but having zero-di…

Agree. I really love Apple, but I always find myself Googling for "Can I do that in iTunes?" (the answer is usually No) or "How to do this?". And I can't say that I want something weird. Some workflows look so simple and obvious to me (and I think most people have the same workflows), but they are literally impossible with iTunes and other Apple stuff. For example, I have a 2TB AirPort Time Capsule, but it looks impo…

a) Photos stores its library in your Pictures directory. You can back it up entirely to any drive. Or if you want individual photos just use the Export/Save menu option.

b) Almost every app bar a few older ones can be made full screen. Unless I am confused there will be no black bar at the bottom. I definitely can't see it.

c) You can do basic side/side tiling if your apps are full screen. Most people aren't clamoring for advanced window management and there are dozens of tools available that aren't hacks by any measure.

Re: iTunes will never work well

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not discoverable. There is no visual indicator telling you about the feature. Only trial and error.

Not every feature needs to be immediately discoverable. The default and 'main' way of zooming is the (un)pinch gesture. Take keyboard shortcuts - they're EXTREMELY undiscoverable, but they're not required for most operations, it's more of a power-user feature.

> Not every feature needs to be immediately discoverable.

Not every feature does. But every function does. If there is no visual indication of how to zoom at all, there are users who will never even discover that they can zoom.

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