Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery, It’s Matter
nytimes.com
Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery, It’s Matter
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Re: Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery, It’s Matter
#2My personal theory of what consciousness is that it is a feedback loop.
I have major issues explaining why i think that but somehow it fits my model.
When thinking of consciousness as a feedback loop, stuff sort of makes sense. I have been unable to poke holes in the theory but also unable to add strength to it.
Re: Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery, It’s Matter
#3> Those who make the Very Large Mistake (of thinking they know enough about the nature of the physical to know that consciousness can’t be physical) tend to split into two groups. Members of the first group remain unshaken in their belief that consciousness exists, and conclude that there must be some sort of nonphysical stuff: They tend to become “dualists.” Members of the second group, passionately committed to the idea that everything is physical, make the most extraordinary move that has ever been made in the history of human thought. They deny the existence of consciousness: They become “eliminativists.”
What's problematic about the "say no to consciousness" case? It seems to be based on their preference for other descriptions of human brain activity, especially when the alternative description (consciousness) has been so ambiguous, vague and unhelpful.
> You cannot describe first-hand facts using only third-hand facts. This is the core philosophical dilemma in the hard problem of consciousness.
from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12381348
(or more accurately, I think third-hand factual systems could probably posit first-hand facts-- but be unable to assert validity or something. I am not a philosopher.)
Re: Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery, It’s Matter
#4My personal theory of what consciousness is that it is a feedback loop. I have major issues explaining why i think that but somehow it fits my model. When thinking of consciousness as a feedback loop, stuff sort of makes sense. I have been unable to poke holes in the theory but also unable to add strength to it.
You might be interested in reading Douglas Hofstadter's book I Am A Strange Loop.
Re: Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery, It’s Matter
#5I think more interesting is the question: What has consciousness? Or from what point on humans carry one?
Re: Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery, It’s Matter
#6i'm struggling to identify the point of the article.
mystery and matter have never been mutually exclusive. depending on it's configuration, matter can lead to some mysterious things. "it's matter" is a bad answer to pretty much every question.
Re: Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery, It’s Matter
#7My personal theory of what consciousness is that it is a feedback loop. I have major issues explaining why i think that but somehow it fits my model. When thinking of consciousness as a feedback loop, stuff sort of makes sense. I have been unable to poke holes in the theory but also unable to add strength to it.
You might be interested in reading Douglas Hofstadter's book I Am A Strange Loop.
Godel Escher Bach also touches on this as well as the relationship between the impossibility of absolute formal logic reductionism v holism, and consciousness.
Re: Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery, It’s Matter
#8> Those who make the Very Large Mistake (of thinking they know enough about the nature of the physical to know that consciousness can’t be physical) tend to split into two groups. Members of the first group remain unshaken in their belief that consciousness exists, and conclude that there must be some sort of nonphysical stuff: They tend to become “dualists.” Members of the second group, passionately committed to the…
> What's problematic about the "say no to consciousness" case?
It denies the most fundamental fact of human experience, the existence of that experience itself.
Re: Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery, It’s Matter
#9> Those who make the Very Large Mistake (of thinking they know enough about the nature of the physical to know that consciousness can’t be physical) tend to split into two groups. Members of the first group remain unshaken in their belief that consciousness exists, and conclude that there must be some sort of nonphysical stuff: They tend to become “dualists.” Members of the second group, passionately committed to the…
Because the description of brain activity does not capture the experience of being an active brain. The scientific picture of the world is odorless, tasteless, colorless, soundless, etc. It's an abstract, mathematical description. But we don't experience the world that way. There is a massive discrepancy between the two. That's consciousness.
Re: Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery, It’s Matter
#10i'm struggling to identify the point of the article. mystery and matter have never been mutually exclusive. depending on it's configuration, matter can lead to some mysterious things. "it's matter" is a bad answer to pretty much every question.
The point I got is this: Just because we can't figure out a physical picture of consciousness doesn't mean there isn't one. Furthermore, it is the physical part that is the big mystery, rather than the consciousness part.