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HP Allegedly Time Bombs Unofficial Ink Cartridges from Working in Its Printers

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Re: HP Allegedly Time Bombs Unofficial Ink Cartridges from Working in Its Printers

#11

Post by Sanddancer »

chrisseaton wrote: post #5
Sanddancer wrote: post #2

I wouldn't doubt it for a second. Printer makers use the razor/razorblade model for consumables, where the printer's dirt cheap, but the ink costs an arm and a leg. This is just the latest tactic for getting people to go OEM only. At this point, I long for the good old days, when Canon embraced 3rd party ink vendors. Canon's cartridges were cheap because the print heads were a separate, replaceable, item, and the thi…

I never understood the razor/razorblade analogy. A razor handle without a blade is just a shaped bit of plastic or metal, without any working or moving parts. The precision engineering is all in the blade. It'd be weird if the handle wasn't cheap and the blades more expensive. But a printer really is a non-trivial set of electronics and working parts, so it is more surprising that they're so cheap.

Razor/razor blade is a marketing strategy. Sell/give the base at a low or free cost, and make the money on selling the consumables at a significant markup. The razor itself also has to be engineered for durability, with springs, latches, etc. While it's a comparatively simple part, it needs to be rugged to last a few years in a moisture filled environment where it's liable to be dropped and otherwise abused.

Similarly, the print heads are the precision part in a printer. Drive components in the printer itself -- motor, the belts, rollers, etc, are all pretty cheap and easy at this point; the same print engine will be used over several series of printers. The print heads on the other hand, have piezoelectric parts and/or heat elements that have to be very quick and accurate to do a good job. Both cases, while there is definitely some engineering in them, it doesn't rise to the cost levels we see them being sold at.

Re: HP Allegedly Time Bombs Unofficial Ink Cartridges from Working in Its Printers

#12

Post by chris_wot »

If this is affecting printers in Australia, then HP are going to learn a very costly lesson in ethics. The ACCC will have to do an investigation, but the instant they confirm this has occurred they will face stiff fines for third line forcing and anti-competitive behaviour distorting the market.

Re: HP Allegedly Time Bombs Unofficial Ink Cartridges from Working in Its Printers

#13

Post by scarecrowbob »

chrisseaton wrote: post #5
Sanddancer wrote: post #2

I wouldn't doubt it for a second. Printer makers use the razor/razorblade model for consumables, where the printer's dirt cheap, but the ink costs an arm and a leg. This is just the latest tactic for getting people to go OEM only. At this point, I long for the good old days, when Canon embraced 3rd party ink vendors. Canon's cartridges were cheap because the print heads were a separate, replaceable, item, and the thi…

I never understood the razor/razorblade analogy. A razor handle without a blade is just a shaped bit of plastic or metal, without any working or moving parts. The precision engineering is all in the blade. It'd be weird if the handle wasn't cheap and the blades more expensive. But a printer really is a non-trivial set of electronics and working parts, so it is more surprising that they're so cheap.

As another poster points out, modern blades are different than older style blades where the blade was just a thin piece of sharp metal. I have one from my great grandfather... the blades are the definitely the cheap, disposable part. That's the model which the idea refers to.

Re: HP Allegedly Time Bombs Unofficial Ink Cartridges from Working in Its Printers

#15

Post by reustle »

Sanddancer wrote: post #2

I wouldn't doubt it for a second. Printer makers use the razor/razorblade model for consumables, where the printer's dirt cheap, but the ink costs an arm and a leg. This is just the latest tactic for getting people to go OEM only. At this point, I long for the good old days, when Canon embraced 3rd party ink vendors. Canon's cartridges were cheap because the print heads were a separate, replaceable, item, and the thi…

I haven't really thought about it recently, but (parts of) Asia seems to have this whole printer ink thing figured out. Just about every printer I see in Thailand has the tubes coming out which go to bottles similar to this [1]. There are little refill stations in malls, and that seems to be the standard. No overpriced OEM cartridges, just a straight ink reservoir.

[1] http://lh3.ggpht.com/_bJKz4lWVpfo/S9p02XqXZqI/AAAAAAAADEI/Q_...

Re: HP Allegedly Time Bombs Unofficial Ink Cartridges from Working in Its Printers

#16

Post by m3adow »

Animats wrote: post #7

There's the Epson Eco-Tank series. Ink is in four bottles at the side of the machine, good for about 4000-6000 pages. Refill with Epson ink bottles or (a bit more messily) from bulk ink. The printer costs about $279. You do have to clean the print heads occasionally. That's the price of long life print heads.

How is the Linux support for Epson printers? The big thing for HP is their good support for Linux.

Re: HP Allegedly Time Bombs Unofficial Ink Cartridges from Working in Its Printers

#17

Post by daurnimator »

Animats wrote: post #7

There's the Epson Eco-Tank series. Ink is in four bottles at the side of the machine, good for about 4000-6000 pages. Refill with Epson ink bottles or (a bit more messily) from bulk ink. The printer costs about $279. You do have to clean the print heads occasionally. That's the price of long life print heads.

You can also buy mods for printers (I have a http://www.rihac.com.au/ ) to give them proper ink reservoirs.

When I got mine done (a canon) they requested my old empty cartridges, as they just grab the chip out of them and trick it into thinking its always full.

Re: HP Allegedly Time Bombs Unofficial Ink Cartridges from Working in Its Printers

#18

Post by shoo »

chris_wot wrote: post #12

If this is affecting printers in Australia, then HP are going to learn a very costly lesson in ethics. The ACCC will have to do an investigation, but the instant they confirm this has occurred they will face stiff fines for third line forcing and anti-competitive behaviour distorting the market.

i'm in australia and bought some cheap fuji-xerox laser printer a year or so ago.

non-oem ink refills are far cheaper than oem ones. a large component of the cost of non-oem ink refills is getting a replacement chip that counts how many times you can print before it claims it needs refilling. you can buy more of these chips along with bulk ink refills. it's like DRM for ink or something.

Re: HP Allegedly Time Bombs Unofficial Ink Cartridges from Working in Its Printers

#20

Post by stephengillie »

pmoriarty wrote: post #4

Are there any open hardware printers in the making? I seem to recall some open hardware cell phone projects. No reason a similar effort couldn't be directed towards making an open printer, is there? Also, it might not even require making a full open hardware printer, but just some key circuitry and maybe some drivers, right?

I'm pretty sure there are more open 3D printer projects, than open paper printer projects. Which just reinforces the differences between 2D and 3D printing.
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