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A statement on online course content and accessibility

news.berkeley.edu

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Re: A statement on online course content and accessibility

#61
post #38

Follow the money. http://www.wendel.com/knowledge-center/publications/older/no...

This is a slur. Almost all accessibility cases seek only correction of the problem and reimbursement for the costs of the lawsuit.

Just because most are not, does not mean that this is not being monetized by some unscrupulous people. In the city where I live, there are law firms where this is their business model. They'll go into a bathroom and carefully measure it. Any reasonable person would say it is accessible, but because it doesn't 100% correspond to the ada standards that came out later they get to sue and make money.

Re: A statement on online course content and accessibility

#62
post #15
post #7

Fyi ... a related (not duplicate) HN discussion from Feb 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9039798 In both this case about UC Berkeley and the lawsuit against Harvard & MIT, the legal attacks seem very wrong. What I see is: - Scenario A: spend $X to release free courses that benefits most of humanity - Scenario B: spend $X+$Y to release free courses that also benefits the disabled population (The $Y is extra…

_ Scenario C: spend $X-(.75 $Y) to release the courses and .75 $Y as a settlement

Scenario D: If $X + $Y is greater than your budget to make free content available $Z, simply remove the content so it is inaccessible to everyone. I know more than one organization that has done this when faced with an ADA complaint about free content.

Re: A statement on online course content and accessibility

#64

can someone explain how they can keep the same material for access by enrolled students but not to public considering ADA requirements?

I can only speak for the UK, but we can give personal attention to disabled students, making sure all content they need is available to them, including individual tutoring for example.

This seems to work very well, but is ad-hoc and wouldn't be suitable for a massive online course.

Re: A statement on online course content and accessibility

#65
post #38

Follow the money. http://www.wendel.com/knowledge-center/publications/older/no...

This is a slur. Almost all accessibility cases seek only correction of the problem and reimbursement for the costs of the lawsuit.

That does not seem to be the case at all.

Re: A statement on online course content and accessibility

#66
post #7

Fyi ... a related (not duplicate) HN discussion from Feb 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9039798 In both this case about UC Berkeley and the lawsuit against Harvard & MIT, the legal attacks seem very wrong. What I see is: - Scenario A: spend $X to release free courses that benefits most of humanity - Scenario B: spend $X+$Y to release free courses that also benefits the disabled population (The $Y is extra…

- Scenario A: Spend $X to make free content accessible to 99% of people.

- Scenario B: Spend $X * Y to make free content accessible to 100% of people.

- Scenario C: You wish to do A but are forced to do B via legislation. $X * Y is greater than your budget to make said content available $Z, so you don't make the content available. I know of more than one organization that has selected this option with free content and with some paid content (in which case $Z is the budget to create it based on the expected revenue) so this is not a theoretical scenario.

Now, Y can vary quite a bit depending on the content and depending on what you're trying to make it accessible to. In the case of making a transcript available, you may have to pay a transcriber. In the case of an app, you may need to buy a screen reader to test with. There are free ones, but they're often not as full featured as the popular one that most folks are using. So, you'll need to buy the $1,100 screen reader (JAWS with the non-Home license) to test against in addition to testing the free open source one. You may also need to pay someone to do more standardized testing with as well.

It's not an insignificant amount of money or work in many cases. I've run into it with PortableApps.com. I had to buy a newer version of our toolkit to be able to get it working with screen readers at all and rewrite multiple controls. I don't have JAWS yet to test against but I do test against NVDA.

There are ways to mitigate some of this. There are multiple groups that transcribe for free to help make content available accessibly. And if you make free open source software that's useful, you can probably find many impaired users willing to help you test as I have for PortableApps.com.

On a personal note, I very much believe in making everything I create accessible.

Re: A statement on online course content and accessibility

#67
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Americans with Disabilities Act [...] explicitly bind society to inefficient resource allocation. Sure, that seems justifiable for commercial businesses but many find the ADA to be an ugly legal weapon for attacking free donations. The spiritual intentions of "free" should be exempted. If UC Berkeley used the viewing of those videos as a mandatory requirement to qualify for admissions into the school or required…

I came back to make a comment just like this, but you already did it better than I would have. The metaphor I had in mind was restaurants that make too much food, and (sometimes; some restaurants) they donate it to foodshelves (when appropriate) or sometimes just to some homeless guys who happen to be nearby. The extra food is an externality of their real purpose as a business, which is to take money in exchange for…

No but people would say they food they give away should still comply with health regulations.

Just because you're making a gift doesn't mean the law doesn't apply to you.

Re: A statement on online course content and accessibility

#68
Classic lobbying. The Department of Justice is filing the complaints against the institutions offering free online courses with an illogical argument masked with virtuous intent. The DOJ is okay with the paid online courses because the levying cost on consumers provides immunity to such violations. Depriving everyone's access to the free content because it did not accommodate those with disabilities sets dangerous precedent for the future. You can't design a system that accommodate everybody from the beginning. Progress requires time and the rational reason for DOJ to begin this investigation is corporate lobbying. What businesses or markets would benefit from this?

The carefully worded letter appears reasonable, except what purpose was conveyed other than forcing the universities to incur high litigation fees? Using ADA as a weapon to purge free sharing of collective intelligence is despicable. I understand universities have limited resources and priorities for their enrolled students, but they should retaliate out of principles.

The community can help with providing captions. Charing $1 fee. Routing the money to a charity. Anything is better than removing the content because that is the complaint's end goal.

Re: A statement on online course content and accessibility

#69
post #23
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you wrote is logical, but applicable to any instance of accommodation to those with impairments. The Americans with Disabilities Act and related actions/legislation/policies explicitly bind society to inefficient resource allocation. The actual letter from the Department of Justice (linked at the bottom of Berkeley's response) goes into more detail. The DoJ is not demanding current materials be removed, nor are…

>The Americans with Disabilities Act [...] explicitly bind society to inefficient resource allocation. Sure, that seems justifiable for commercial businesses but many find the ADA to be an ugly legal weapon for attacking free donations. The spiritual intentions of "free" should be exempted. If UC Berkeley used the viewing of those videos as a mandatory requirement to qualify for admissions into the school or required…

> Sure, that seems justifiable for commercial businesses but many find the ADA to be an ugly legal weapon for attacking free donations. The spiritual intentions of "free" should be exempted.

I dispute labeling this program as a "donation". It's an official program run by a quasi-governmental institution that is supported by taxpayer dollars. Disabled people pay taxes in California, and yet cannot avail themselves of this content that's ostensibly provided for the public benefit.

Re: A statement on online course content and accessibility

#70
This simply doesn't make sense.

Yes, certainly, content should be made accessibly available. Yes, certainly, Berkeley's responsibility is to its enrolled students.

But removing content from public access serves neither of those needs. It doesn't help the blind, deaf or otherwise handicapped; it doesn't help tuition-paying students.

It makes everyone equal, in the same sense that an eye for an eye makes everyone equal.

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