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Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

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Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#71
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why that is? Most people I know who have anything like a computer background from school learned the standard MS Office suite; they then went on to jobs where those skills were useful because their companies also used the MS Office suite. What's the advantage of teaching fundamentals using software the student is less likely to see again?

It's a catch 22 lock-in perpetuated by MS. It should be broken and education system is as good place as any to do it. MS hooked everyone on it, and arguments like "what's the advantage of not being hooked on it, since everyone is" aren't helping. Luckily some actually get it and use Linux in schools. But in my experience it's not common (in higher education chances are better).

I think you're seeing familiarity with open source tools as an end. If the goal of education is to teach people fundamentals of computer use that are independent of software, the use of open source in that equation is orthogonal to the goal. It's easier to just use what everyone else is using.

I think the "it" some "get" is not seen as a necessary "it" for the purposes of education, and "Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea" is begging the question.

Linux is 25 years old now. The GPL is older than that. The ecosystem around them has had plenty of time to prove its worth as a superior solution for educational tools; it mostly wallows around in a sea of mutually-incompatible "maybe-we-could" and "what-if-we-tried" initiatives without the kind of clout behind them that make institutions believe the solution's providers will be around in five years and the institution won't be stuck owning 100% of the tool they don't really want to support. It turns out most educators and students would rather have a working solution guaranteed by someone with money in the game than a tool they can fully modify, evidence seems to suggest. The advantage to the MS ecosystem is that when it doesn't work, you can take it to multiple independent companies who will fix it for you.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#72
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a catch 22 lock-in perpetuated by MS. It should be broken and education system is as good place as any to do it. MS hooked everyone on it, and arguments like "what's the advantage of not being hooked on it, since everyone is" aren't helping. Luckily some actually get it and use Linux in schools. But in my experience it's not common (in higher education chances are better).

I think you're seeing familiarity with open source tools as an end. If the goal of education is to teach people fundamentals of computer use that are independent of software, the use of open source in that equation is orthogonal to the goal. It's easier to just use what everyone else is using. I think the "it" some "get" is not seen as a necessary "it" for the purposes of education, and "Using closed stuff for educat…

> "Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea" is begging the question.

It's quite clear that depending on some vendor who can dictate what to do for the education system is a bad idea. And entities like MS clearly have that power now to some degree (or strive to gain that power). So using open source in education field is a natural way to avoid that. As I said, some actually get it enough to act on it. I don't think anyone thinks that it's good to have that dependency in general, most just don't go anywhere further than realizing that it's not good.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#73
post #5

When Apple makes an iPad app to teach kids a programming language useful only in the Apple ecosystem, they're promoting STEM education. When Microsoft leverages a massively popular game to promote STEM education, they're weaponizing.

IMO both are doing more wrong than good. I ignore the already discussed walled garden Apple is trying to bring to education.

MS is doing the exact same thing. The new Minecraft Education Edition is Windows 10 only. I could live with that. What I find disturbing is that they already killed the orignal MinecraftEdu. Hundreds of teachers are stranded and without support, trying to keep things running.

Worse, MinecraftEdu had modding support. The new Minecraft Education Edition doesn't. Old content won't port over. Instead of embracing the medium, they try to shoehorn classical education principles into the environment.

They had something good, but managed to make it worse. It's sad. I wished there was a free alternative affordable by everyone, irrespective of hardware, OS etc. Alas, it'd require the same mass appeal as Minecraft, which is not going to happen.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#74

Weaponize? That's just wrong. Minecraft, retroactively dubbed Minecraft Java Edition, is totally cross platform. So, how does this new product help MS dominate education? Answer: it doesn't. It's like arguing that Bröderbund (I hope I spelled that right) weaponized Zoombinis to take over the education market.

Minecraft Education Edition is a fork of Minecraft Pocket Edition, written in C++ without modding capabilities and only compatible with Windows 10. Minecraft Java Edition is likely going to die eventually.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#75

If you're a developer looking to fight this, I'd suggest taking a look at Minetest, which started out as a fully libre open-source clone of Minecraft but has really grown into its own project in its own right. The core engine is C++ and mods are programmed using Lua. http://www.minetest.net/#about

and why do you want to fight it?

Because Minecraft Education Edition is not scriptable/modable unlike Minecraft for Desktop or Minetest.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#76

Weaponize? That's just wrong. Minecraft, retroactively dubbed Minecraft Java Edition, is totally cross platform. So, how does this new product help MS dominate education? Answer: it doesn't. It's like arguing that Bröderbund (I hope I spelled that right) weaponized Zoombinis to take over the education market.

Minecraft Education Edition is a fork of Minecraft Pocket Edition, written in C++ without modding capabilities and only compatible with Windows 10. Minecraft Java Edition is likely going to die eventually.

I don't think MCJE will die any time soon. It's still the first branch new features land in, and no matter how much MS markets it, MCW10 will be a second-class citizen for as long as that's true.

In addition, much of the Mojang staff works primarily in Java, as does the modding scene. If Mojang dropped MCJE, there would be a massive outcry, both inside the company (I suspect Searge, and maybe Dinnerbone, in particular, would object) and outside it.

Finally, even if MCJE was dropped, the community might well keep it alive. People still play 1.2.5 for the modding scene, and the jars are fairly well available. The community could probably outpace Mojang - and indeed, with projects like Forge, the OreDictionary, FMP, the FluidAPI, and others, not only have they shown they can do it, they already have the groundwork in place.

Thanks for the info though. I had assumed that MCEE was a continuation of MCFE.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#77
post #23

Has anyone here programmed minecraft? Can you report to the rest of us how the following compare as learning experiences: 1. Minecraft 2. Swift Playground 3. Commodore 64 or other old basic 4. Game Salad, or Game Maker, 5. Just learning Javascript in the browser I know #2 is my favorite experience, but I think #5 is the most useful now. Just wondering if anyone has played around with minecraft to compare. If I had to…

I created this as a kids learning tool: http://webblocks.uk/ Has a built in code editor. Had the opportunity to run a few workshops around it. Kids seemed to enjoy it.

On Chrome/Mac. See console and type stuff (resetPlayer()) and press enter, but nothing happens.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#78
post #32

Has anyone here programmed minecraft? Can you report to the rest of us how the following compare as learning experiences: 1. Minecraft 2. Swift Playground 3. Commodore 64 or other old basic 4. Game Salad, or Game Maker, 5. Just learning Javascript in the browser I know #2 is my favorite experience, but I think #5 is the most useful now. Just wondering if anyone has played around with minecraft to compare. If I had to…

We have Minecraft on our Raspbery Pi connected to our TV, you can write Python code to add/ remove blocks etc. My 5-year-old is happy to open and run these scripts, my 7-year-old will customise simple functions I've written or write them along side me, she understands why and how they work. This is pretty much the level of coding I was doing back when I was their age on our families ZX Spectrum. But importantly the r…

The Kano OS also has a fun Blockly/Minecraft integration that is worth looking at. You can access it by buying a Kano kit or just download their OS to an SD card and boot it up on your own Raspberry Pi. Great stuff.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#79
post #5

When Apple makes an iPad app to teach kids a programming language useful only in the Apple ecosystem, they're promoting STEM education. When Microsoft leverages a massively popular game to promote STEM education, they're weaponizing.

IMO both are doing more wrong than good. I ignore the already discussed walled garden Apple is trying to bring to education. MS is doing the exact same thing. The new Minecraft Education Edition is Windows 10 only. I could live with that. What I find disturbing is that they already killed the orignal MinecraftEdu. Hundreds of teachers are stranded and without support, trying to keep things running. Worse, MinecraftEd…

Not sure which is worse, Java based MinecraftEdu that wanted manually installing on every computer and kids given write access to the folder, or having to deal with Windows 10 Advertising Edition and Windows Store
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