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We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

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Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#171

Post by joesmo »

vertex-four wrote: post #119
bad_user wrote: post #94

I work remotely. I'm from Romania and we have a team that's distributed across the country, with some members from other European countries as well. We do have a small office where I live, but it is provided just as a place to come to in case you don't like working from home and I do go to our office almost daily, but most of the team is on the other end of a Gmail/Skype/Slack connection. Today I got tired at 1 PM, g…

That is generally not compatible with the American way of working - especially in the startup scene - where ever second you're not working is considered a second that your competitor companies have over you.

What's not compatible? He says he's getting the work done. I work exactly like he does for an American company in the bay area and it works out extremely well. Unless you have a deadline that day, I don't see what difference it makes whether you finish the project at 5pm or 7pm or 11pm as long as you get your tasks for the day done. Or are you just assuming that he's not putting in as much work because he's taking a break and isn't American?

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#172

Post by joesmo »

FuNe wrote: post #14

I'm partially remote working (RW) at an organization that is slowly rolling back its RW culture(1). The motto for this goes like 'teams work better if they are collocated, yada, yada'. The real reason is that managers want to feel in control (plus they want to drive away a lot of people by taking RW away). "Culture" is used as a smoke screen for more sinister incentives. (I can say that with confidence because I can…

I can't think of a single positive thing any "company culture" I have experienced (around two dozen places in my lifetime so far) has ever created, but racism, sexism, harassment, homogeneity, demotivation, distraction, drunkedness, fraud, and other negatives were indeed products of "company culture" at almost every company I've worked for that touted a focus on "company culture." Often, even the food/drinks are shit, let alone the rest of the culture.

The great thing about remote work, IMO, is that there is NO remote culture and therefore, you don't have to be subjected to the above as much or as often (the actual article sounds like some generic marketing speak to me about something that doesn't exist). It's one of the huge perks I only realized after starting remote work. Mind you, there are whole classes of people, especially many middle managers, whose only job is to create the above things and call them "company culture," and they are typically not so happy about not controlling those below them through abuses of this idea. Thus, they want to pull the remote workers back into their sphere of influence, where they can be controlled, and their jobs' existence justified.

As far as being off shored: if they thought that was a good idea to begin with, the company would have already done it and I wouldn't be working remotely. They probably also wouldn't be in business anymore.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#173

Post by justindocanto »

lj3 wrote: post #170
justindocanto wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american who works just as he does, and have for roughly 10 years, this is simply not true. Working down to the bone, "every second", will lead to serious burn out. Your mental health suffers, as do your relationships. I won't make any assumptions about who you are or how you work, but I tend to see this mindset from new blood who wants to get the edge over others. I understand this mindset, as it's very produc…

> As an american who works just as he does, and have for roughly 10 years, this is simply not true. For you. I worked remotely for an American consulting company a while back and you were expected to be reachable during the business hours and respond in less than 30 minutes. If you missed that window more than once, that number shrank to 10 minutes. The turnover rate was high. I agree with everything you're saying, b…

> "Once in a while I would take the phone out of my pocket and give quick answers on Slack, but most of my time I enjoyed what is the beginning of autumn."

As long as you reply in your 30 minute deadline, i dont see how you still can't do what he's doing. I have my phone on me all the time and if there's an emergency or some sort of window where i must reply, i hop on the phone or go back to the desk and get it done.

That said, my reply wasn't intended to be a blanket statement of all remote workers.

One example of where it doesn't work is at U-Haul. A lot of uhaul customer service is people sitting at home glued to their computers, waiting for calls. There is no 30 minute window there.

My point was that it's not as impossible as the comment author made it seem. A balance between "riding in the park" and "answering my client within 30 minutes" is possible here.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#174

Post by oxide »

I have almost no marketable skills to speak of, how can I work remotely?

I'll take phone calls, answer questions from a script, whatever I have to do.

Also, what marketable skills should I focus on developing if I want to work remotely in an actual, skill-required job?

I'm not incompetent: I'm proficient in plenty of basic office software, I can troubleshoot/fix a computer, and I can type 90wpm. You know, the fundamentals.

Thank you in advance.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#175

Post by xufi »

jkot wrote: post #12

In my experience it is best to create your own remote job. You can start consulting / freelancing. Or existing job can be made remote. Employer must trust you.

Actually, This is a smart approach. A friend of mien made his own team and he's doing quite well v.s the old way where he was paired with people he did not get along with

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#176

Post by BuckRogers »

lj3 wrote: post #170
justindocanto wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american who works just as he does, and have for roughly 10 years, this is simply not true. Working down to the bone, "every second", will lead to serious burn out. Your mental health suffers, as do your relationships. I won't make any assumptions about who you are or how you work, but I tend to see this mindset from new blood who wants to get the edge over others. I understand this mindset, as it's very produc…

> As an american who works just as he does, and have for roughly 10 years, this is simply not true. For you. I worked remotely for an American consulting company a while back and you were expected to be reachable during the business hours and respond in less than 30 minutes. If you missed that window more than once, that number shrank to 10 minutes. The turnover rate was high. I agree with everything you're saying, b…

Odd. I work from home and have for 3 years now. I'm reachable in a second. Because I have my ass at my desk working except when I'm at lunch. 30 minutes is a deplorable standard, 10 minutes is simply unacceptable. No standard should be necessary. If I were managing those groups and I needed a standard: I'd find new employees.

While on one hand I am strongly against employee-abuse and working over an 8-hour day: I guarantee my employer that I'm available near-instantly for 8 hours straight (barring lunch) and I have my head down working during that time. Then I disconnect, and go love my family.

As such, my employer trusts me and if I ever did happen to disappear off on a bike into the forest they have no concerns I wouldn't handle my work. I call it an "honest 8", so they are guaranteed to get what they pay for with no concerns of me screwing off, and everyone is always on the same page.

All that said, I do not work well with mediocre people who don't try hard in everything they do, and put pride into their work. So I might be an oddball in the US, and fit in better with a less abusive, but more orderly, stringent society like Germany. Where coincidentally, most of my family came from to begin with so it may just be a difference in cultural norms passed down.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#177

Post by wott »

BadassFractal wrote: post #136
vertex-four wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is generally not compatible with the American way of working - especially in the startup scene - where ever second you're not working is considered a second that your competitor companies have over you.

A startup is a temporary organization searching for a repeatable and scalable business model. Speed and agility are your only advantages. Working all the time is practically essential for most startups. Are we seriously saying that startups should be comfortable 9 to 5 jobs? There are hundreds of millions of jobs out there that will give you that lifestyle, why complain about that exception where it is actually sensi…

> Working all the time is practically essential for most startups.

No wonder why almost all of them go straight into the wall, head down.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#178

Post by sakopov »

I am the only employee in a company of about 60/70 who is completely remote. I was actually working from the headquarters and then ended up relocating to a new city. While I enjoy the peace and quite and get 3 times more stuff done, I cannot shake the feeling of isolation. Some days I feel like i'm going fucking insane not having somebody to just walk up and talk to or go to lunch with.

Yeah there are coffee shops. But really how much time are you going to spend working out of a busy coffee shop? Maybe 3 or 4 hours before you realize that you can't hear anybody on a conference call or you're irritating someone next to you who's studying for an exam.

There are also co-working spaces, which cost on average about 25% of what I pay for my apartment. Seriously, if you're thinking about working remote REALLY consider what you're getting into. Being stuck in 4 walls 8 hours a day does amazing things to productivity but is ultimately a fucking mental torture.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#179

Post by cookiecaper »

lj3 wrote: post #170
justindocanto wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american who works just as he does, and have for roughly 10 years, this is simply not true. Working down to the bone, "every second", will lead to serious burn out. Your mental health suffers, as do your relationships. I won't make any assumptions about who you are or how you work, but I tend to see this mindset from new blood who wants to get the edge over others. I understand this mindset, as it's very produc…

> As an american who works just as he does, and have for roughly 10 years, this is simply not true. For you. I worked remotely for an American consulting company a while back and you were expected to be reachable during the business hours and respond in less than 30 minutes. If you missed that window more than once, that number shrank to 10 minutes. The turnover rate was high. I agree with everything you're saying, b…

It depends on the expectations of the employer. This stuff is usually stated on remote job listings (though admittedly jobs that start as "choose your own hours" somehow transition to "work between 9 and 5 Pacific time" too frequently). There are remote employers that expect you to be continually available for instant comms all day, part of the day, or none of the day (i.e., unscheduled instant comms are non-mandatory). The latter is obviously ideal but also the most rare.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#180

Post by MyNameIsFred »

afarrell wrote: post #154
BadassFractal wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A startup is a temporary organization searching for a repeatable and scalable business model. Speed and agility are your only advantages. Working all the time is practically essential for most startups. Are we seriously saying that startups should be comfortable 9 to 5 jobs? There are hundreds of millions of jobs out there that will give you that lifestyle, why complain about that exception where it is actually sensi…

The advantages of a 9 to 5 job are that: 1) It gives you time to reflect on whether the direction you are going makes sense and is aligned with others. 2) It gives you time to sleep and exercise, which makes you more focused and effective at work. 3) It removes the illusion that you can ignore planning/reflection and just pour more hours into something in order to make it successful. 4) If you are demanding people wo…

> It removes the illusion that you can ignore planning/reflection and just pour more hours into something in order to make it successful.

It took me too many years in the industry to figure this out. When I'm in "get it done" mode spanning consecutive long days, I do not think calmly or clearly enough to recognize the opportunities along the way that I could have taken to achieve my goal faster/better. Since realizing this, I cannot count how many times I have come in the next morning with new and better ideas and approaches after reflecting on the previous day's sprint during my own, calm, personal time.

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