Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

codewithoutrules.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 152 posts

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#31

Post by dx034 »

antirez wrote: post #13

I don't know what's the perfect amount of work every week, but I'm sure anything > 40h is wrong, and you should add commute time if more than 30min/day, otherwise it's a fake figure. In 36-40h/week it's possible to do a lot of things. If you can't often is not because of the time, but because the same people wanting you to work more vaporize your time with meetings, conference calls, emails, phone calls, at a rate th…

I wouldn't necessarily draw the line there. It always depends on your situation. If you don't have a family, working 7.30am-5.30pm (my approx working hours) 5 days per week still allows you to have enough time to spend with friends and for side projects.

If your really dedicated to your project and have no family waiting at home, why should you always leave after 8 hours? Sitting in front of the TV at home isn't necessarily better than an interesting project at work. Will not always be the case, so it's (in my opinion) completely normal to work longer during some months of the year and shorter during others.

For me, flexibility is clearly more importan than working hours. It's great to have a workplace where you can go for a long lunch once in a while or a doctor's appointment without anyone raising questions. It's about being able to make plans. If I know that I can go out for Dinner next Wed on 5pm then it's no problem to work longer on other days. Not being able to plan this sucks, no matter how much you actually work.

But I agree that if the work environment is unproductive, working more is definitely not the solution.

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#32

Post by geofft »

ThePawnBreak wrote: post #23
flanbiscuit wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're just reducing your hourly rate. This is how I've always explained to people who constantly work overtime in salaried positions where they don't actually get paid for that overtime. You can at look at it one of 2 ways. 1. Your billable self stopped at the 8-hour mark on a given weekday and every hour after that, including weekends, you're just giving away free labor to the company. Just think about that every…

Do you also account for the fact that you are way more likely to be promoted if you work overtime?

Is that actually true? A good coder or sysadmin who is willing to work overtime is more valuable as a coder or sysadmin than as a team lead or something, where the nature of their work demands less overtime.

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#33

Post by kraftman »

_ix wrote: post #3

Just put in my two week's notice yesterday. I've been putting in a stupid amount of hours (80+) while my colleagues in other departments barely hit the 40 hour mark. This is a good omen.

How do you get to the stage where you're putting that many hours in? Does it start off just staying late one night and then turns into more nights and then every day? Or is it like that from day one trying to prove yourself?

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#34

Post by nkg »

edw519 wrote: post #4

Finally, you'll need to have the self-confidence or stubbornness to choose and stick to a path that most people don't take. You don't need self-confidence or stubbornness, just commitment to your principles... I have never worked more than 40 hours per week for anyone else. Ever. I arrive at 8. I leave at 5. I don't work from home. Except for emergencies. My definition of emergency: If someone is dying or their produ…

I often say to my colleagues that me working 1 hour later without a valid reason (emergency) is exactly like my boss giving me a few dollars more without a valid reason... which never happens. ever.

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#35

Post by wccrawford »

muzster wrote: post #6
_ix wrote: post #3

Just put in my two week's notice yesterday. I've been putting in a stupid amount of hours (80+) while my colleagues in other departments barely hit the 40 hour mark. This is a good omen.

Was that down to yourself or your employer ? Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

Does it really matter? Since he put in his notice, I don't think he'd have worked 80 hour weeks if he didn't feel he had to. Either way, he feels pressured to do it and he is now out from under that pressure.

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#36

Post by kraftman »

ThePawnBreak wrote: post #23
flanbiscuit wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're just reducing your hourly rate. This is how I've always explained to people who constantly work overtime in salaried positions where they don't actually get paid for that overtime. You can at look at it one of 2 ways. 1. Your billable self stopped at the 8-hour mark on a given weekday and every hour after that, including weekends, you're just giving away free labor to the company. Just think about that every…

Do you also account for the fact that you are way more likely to be promoted if you work overtime?

I'd rather just look for a job elsewhere paying more than do tonnes of overtime to maybe get promoted.

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#37

Post by jazzyk »

jnordwick wrote: post #30

Let me come in with a contradictory opinion especially on the overtime. You don't work for your current salary, you work for your next one. If you are one of those 9 to 5 ers, don't complain when the guy working 60 hours and more gets that promotion over you. The higher up the ladder you go, the more that will be required of you. Also, startups or high paying jobs will require more of you since you will get getting m…

>when the guy working 60 hours and more gets that promotion over you

Plenty of people who work hard (whether 40 or 60 hours/week) do not get promoted because they can't or won't spend half of that time on self-promotion. They are seen as valuable worker-bees, but promotions go to self-promoters and schmoozers.

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#38

Post by formula1 »

jnordwick wrote: post #30

Let me come in with a contradictory opinion especially on the overtime. You don't work for your current salary, you work for your next one. If you are one of those 9 to 5 ers, don't complain when the guy working 60 hours and more gets that promotion over you. The higher up the ladder you go, the more that will be required of you. Also, startups or high paying jobs will require more of you since you will get getting m…

This is the culture you want to support and see thrive? Or are you a survival of the fittest kind of person? Many people in the software community believe in opensource and freedom of information. A single one of us often replaces at least 20 peoples jobs due to automation and that number will go up. Tech attracts the most spineless yet sweet personalities.

With all this in mind, you believe that the person allowing you to live should dictate the lifestyle you are allowed to. And their choice is one of "12 hours is not enough but you need sleep so you can do it again tomarrow". Do you want to live your life with only glimpses of the outside world? Do you think success in the ccorperate bubble is worth more than exploring what you want?

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#39

Post by WhoBeI »

patrickdavey wrote: post #5

I went to a talk once on leadership. One of the suggestions was to get your "go to hell kit" ready. That is, get enough money in the bank (whatever that means for you) so that you can walk away if things cross your personal lines, be they moral / work-life balance, whatever. It's a good thing if there's pressure to work silly hours. In my first job (recent grad) before I left the job, I'd been working 5 weekends stra…

No work without pay. If they feel that's a bad attitude then they can start offering their products and/or services for free and see how they like it.

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#40

Post by WhoBeI »

patrickdavey wrote: post #5

I went to a talk once on leadership. One of the suggestions was to get your "go to hell kit" ready. That is, get enough money in the bank (whatever that means for you) so that you can walk away if things cross your personal lines, be they moral / work-life balance, whatever. It's a good thing if there's pressure to work silly hours. In my first job (recent grad) before I left the job, I'd been working 5 weekends stra…

No work without pay. If they feel that's a bad attitude then they can start offering their products and/or services for free and see how they like it.
Post reply on HN