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The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

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Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#21

Post by biztos »

zelos wrote: post #11

What do people consider an average work week? I do 37.5hrs religiously and have never had a problem. A good fraction of developers at head office do 30-32hrs (4 days/wk).

I consider 40-ish to be "normal" but I don't always organize my time that way, it's just some ingrained cultural thing because I'm from the USA.

When I feel like I'm working much less than 40, I check my productivity. If my productivity feels good I stop worrying; if not then I try to work more. (I've been in the game long enough to have a pretty good sense of this.)

When I feel like I'm working much more than 40, I worry about my time-management and try to correct it.

I would find it completely reasonable for someone else to do the same reckoning with 30 instead of 40 hours, as long as they get shit done.

On the occasions when I've found myself stuck in crazy ruts, like six months at 80 hours per week, in hindsight it's always been because I followed some wrong lead -- a workaholic boss, an arbitrary deadline -- that I didn't actually have to follow.

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#22

Post by biztos »

majewsky wrote: post #19
kamaal wrote: post #9

The problem is never more working hours. Nobody minds working extra hours as long as they are paid for it. The problem really is companies expecting people to do far more then anything they are ready to pay for. Sometime its even more worse when a few people have to make up for other people, and then watch the lazy group get rewarded better for political reasons. The real issue is resentment not extra working hours.

> Nobody minds working extra hours as long as they are paid for it. "As long as they are paid for it" may already be fairyland. A usual clause in employment contracts for developers in Germany goes like "The salary is X per month. Overtime is satisfied by this."

Don't larger companies in Germany usually do flex-time (Gleitzeit) for non-management employees?

So, my boss can require that I work an extra 10 hours this week, but I need to get it back at some point, right?

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#23

Post by ThePawnBreak »

flanbiscuit wrote: post #18
patrickdavey wrote: post #5

I went to a talk once on leadership. One of the suggestions was to get your "go to hell kit" ready. That is, get enough money in the bank (whatever that means for you) so that you can walk away if things cross your personal lines, be they moral / work-life balance, whatever. It's a good thing if there's pressure to work silly hours. In my first job (recent grad) before I left the job, I'd been working 5 weekends stra…

> You're just reducing your hourly rate. This is how I've always explained to people who constantly work overtime in salaried positions where they don't actually get paid for that overtime. You can at look at it one of 2 ways. 1. Your billable self stopped at the 8-hour mark on a given weekday and every hour after that, including weekends, you're just giving away free labor to the company. Just think about that every…

Do you also account for the fact that you are way more likely to be promoted if you work overtime?

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#27

Post by OpenDrapery »

ThePawnBreak wrote: post #23
flanbiscuit wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're just reducing your hourly rate. This is how I've always explained to people who constantly work overtime in salaried positions where they don't actually get paid for that overtime. You can at look at it one of 2 ways. 1. Your billable self stopped at the 8-hour mark on a given weekday and every hour after that, including weekends, you're just giving away free labor to the company. Just think about that every…

Do you also account for the fact that you are way more likely to be promoted if you work overtime?

You may be more likely to be promoted if you display a backbone. Real straight shooter with upper management written all over him.

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#28

Post by elmigranto »

edw519 wrote: post #4

Finally, you'll need to have the self-confidence or stubbornness to choose and stick to a path that most people don't take. You don't need self-confidence or stubbornness, just commitment to your principles... I have never worked more than 40 hours per week for anyone else. Ever. I arrive at 8. I leave at 5. I don't work from home. Except for emergencies. My definition of emergency: If someone is dying or their produ…

> "most people" I know have a philosophy similar to mine

That's probably why you know them in the first place.

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#29

Post by triplesec »

makecheck wrote: post #20

One red flag is this: does a company zealously track every hour of vacation time but not even give you a place to log overtime? These two things should be treated with equal importance because they are fundamentally the same measurement. If they expect you to take precisely 2 weeks of vacation a year then be sure to reward them by doing precisely 8 hours of work each day. If they have leniency in vacation, reward the…

or four weeks' vacation in a jurisdiction with humane labour practices

Re: The Programmer’s Guide to a Sane Workweek

#30

Post by jnordwick »

Let me come in with a contradictory opinion especially on the overtime.

You don't work for your current salary, you work for your next one. If you are one of those 9 to 5 ers, don't complain when the guy working 60 hours and more gets that promotion over you.

The higher up the ladder you go, the more that will be required of you. Also, startups or high paying jobs will require more of you since you will get getting more in return for better performance.

It is a trade off, and as you get older your priorities change. But there is a trade off to be made. 60 hours is the norm in my field, and often I'll put out more (including the random 2am call), and sometimes much more.

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