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Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

reuters.com

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Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#71

Post by mtgx »

The timeline of what happened (according to BBC):

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-11949341

What jumps out of to me is that the initial prosecutor said she didn't believe Assange committed rape, so she dropped the case. But then Sweden's general prosecutor took the case - why would she do that? Is that typical in Sweden?

Another thing it's not made clear by BBC, although it may have been explained in other articles or by Assange himself, is how did the two women meet and already accused him of rape within the span of 3 days?

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#72

Post by k1m »

SEMW wrote: post #46
Hitard wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Swedish police have had the option to interview Assange in London for three years, all expenses paid. They have chosen instead to temporize and delay, and thereby leave the investigation without closure. Note that the Swedish police have conducted foreign interviews in the past, but for some reason seem intent on drawing out this particular process.

They've asked to, multiple times. The Ecuadorian embassy won't let them. " Last month, Ecuador’s prosecutor-general rejected a previous request from the Swedish prosecutor to question Assange in London. That office, in a letter to Swedish authorities, said it will interview Assange and asked for a list of questions the Swedish prosecutor wants the Ecuadorian prosecutor to ask the Wikileaks founder. " ( http://www.the…

Ecuador did not refuse. They are the ones who wanted Assange to be questioned in the embassy in the first place. But obviously there is a procedure for this to happen, and as another commenter says, a date has now been set. The Swedes, after years of refusing to come to London to question Assange, finally agreed after the UN ruled that Assange's stay is arbitrary detention and criticised Sweden for its handling of the case.

http://johnpilger.com/articles/freeing-julian-assange-the-la...

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#73

Post by notahacker »

sgift wrote: post #41
rightnow wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the dignity of the two girls? They're not worth anything?

If the prosecution values their dignity so much it is free to do the interview per video or by going to London and finish this thing. The options are there, they just have to use them.

How do they "finish the thing" by being unable to complete the arrest because he's sitting on foreign territory?

Particularly when the Ecuadorean embassy keeps throwing curve balls by blocking requests and insisting on asking the questions themselves.

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#74

Post by Mtinie »

notahacker wrote: post #51
phicoh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most court systems, the defendant is not required to say anything. So (in theory) he can just be tried in absentia. He can even have lawyers representing him. At least to me (but I'm not a lawyer), the current system violates european human rights. Either he is charged with a crime, in which case the court case should have started years ago (and ended), or he is not officially charged with a crime, in which case h…

He is free to go wherever he wants until he is charged. It's just that if he goes outside the Ecuadorian embassy, he will be charged.

IANAL, and I'm definitely not current on how the Scandinavian legal system works. I'm hoping someone can summarize this:

Why can't he be charged while he's still in the Embassy?

I understand that enforcing any judgement rendered by a court becomes a hang up because of his asylum, but that's a separate concern.

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#75

Post by belorn »

willvarfar wrote: post #8

Someone accused of rape should not be given refuge to wait it out. Its easy for armchair conspiracists to imagine this whole thing an elaborate ruse to extradite Assange to the US, but Assange was being questioned in Sweden before he fled from there and on bail in the UK prior to 'fleeing' to the Ecuadorian embassy. It seems a very roundabout way for the Americans to get at him. Occams Razor Assange is fleeing justic…

Right of political asylum is a tricky concept. Such persons are indeed protected by one legal system from the prosecution from an other legal system. Neither system are required by international standard to back off, but tax payers of both systems are paying for it and thus has some right to question the sanity of it.

As for armchair Occams Razor/conspiracists theorist, the published line of events goes as:

First month in Sweden. Initial questioning only, followed by conversations between lawyer and prosecutor. Assange explicit asked if he could leave the country and got "yes" back. While in UK he had a previous schedule talk in Sweden which got suddenly surrounded by a massive police force. Following this was the international arrest order.

So I ask, what secretly American agents? What elaborate ruse? A ordinary investigation suddenly jumped from "this is barely worth anyones time" to "international arrest warrant and massive police forces". Assange theory is that an external diplomatic force, ie US, meddled with the investigation. The other theory being presented is that this unprecedented chain of events is just normal procedure.

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#76

Post by DanBC »

onion2k wrote: post #42
willvarfar wrote: post #8

Someone accused of rape should not be given refuge to wait it out. Its easy for armchair conspiracists to imagine this whole thing an elaborate ruse to extradite Assange to the US, but Assange was being questioned in Sweden before he fled from there and on bail in the UK prior to 'fleeing' to the Ecuadorian embassy. It seems a very roundabout way for the Americans to get at him. Occams Razor Assange is fleeing justic…

You're absolutely right, Assange should face his accusers in court. That's obvious. The problem is that Sweden and the UK are complicit in America's desire to seize Assange and put him in prison without even the possibility of a fair trial, and the first step in that process is his extradition to the US from either the UK or Sweden. That is what's interfering with the case and what Assange is fleeing from, not the ra…

> The problem is that Sweden and the UK are complicit

The UK isn't that complicit, because he's been here for a while and the UK has done fuck all.

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#77

Post by chmars »

notahacker wrote: post #51
phicoh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most court systems, the defendant is not required to say anything. So (in theory) he can just be tried in absentia. He can even have lawyers representing him. At least to me (but I'm not a lawyer), the current system violates european human rights. Either he is charged with a crime, in which case the court case should have started years ago (and ended), or he is not officially charged with a crime, in which case h…

He is free to go wherever he wants until he is charged. It's just that if he goes outside the Ecuadorian embassy, he will be charged.

Rather extradited – to Sweden or the US, the latter maybe via Sweden … that seems to be the real issue, not the rape accusations (although rape accusations are known as a powerful weapon to destroy enemies – although that does of course not rule out that Assange is actually a rapist under Swedish law).

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#78

Post by gambiting »

sgift wrote: post #41
rightnow wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the dignity of the two girls? They're not worth anything?

If the prosecution values their dignity so much it is free to do the interview per video or by going to London and finish this thing. The options are there, they just have to use them.

Or try him in absentia. But clearly, they don't care enough.

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#79

Post by Nokinside »

rightnow wrote: post #12
wallace_f wrote: post #6

This is not the first time Sweden has violated human dignity for the sake of helping out the US. One example: https://www.hrw.org/news/2006/11/09/sweden-violated-torture-...

What about the dignity of the two girls? They're not worth anything?

Dignity of the two girls is not involved because they did not report being raped or molested despite what the news say.

Ms. Ardin hosted Assange six days after the alleged incident and threw party for him.

Ms. Wilen and Assange separated in good mood afterwards and had breakfast together.

They went to police in order to persuade him to be tested for sexually transmitted diseases and after the police said they cold not do such thing they basically asked the police "if they could have been raped or molested" without never reporting rape or molestation. In the prosecutors report girls describe sex as unpleasant and that they did not like it. Under Swedish law police and the prosecution are required to register and prosecute all possible rape offenses of which they become aware. Prosecutors even dropped the case once.

As far as I understand, this is just procedural limbo. Swedish prosecutors are required to continue with hearing and Assange is freaked out of his mind because the case is so absurd.

I don't agree with those who claim that Swedish rape laws are bad, but I think they are very different from other countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#/media/File:Ra...

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#80

Post by maglavaitss »

eli wrote: post #32
maglavaitss wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With your fancy words, you're missing the central point: everybody should be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

By what process could his guilt possibly be provable if he refuses to leave the embassy?

There is no way to prove someone's guilt unless he's in Guantanamo? Every day HN teaches me stuff.
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