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Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

reuters.com

31–40 of 135 posts

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#31

So you believe the rape accusations are valid? If you think that it is not politically motivated or that Sweden will not hand him over to the US as soon as they get him, you must be incredibly naive.

What does hand over mean. Assange isn't wanted in America, and as far as I'm aware hasn't broken any US laws either. I'm sure you can find some quotes from blowhard politicians saying something mean about him, but that's not how the justice system works.

So what does hand over mean? And why would neutral Sweden be more likely to hand him over than closest ally, special relationship, NATO and 5 Eyes member Britain?

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#32

Someone accused of rape should not be given refuge to wait it out. Its easy for armchair conspiracists to imagine this whole thing an elaborate ruse to extradite Assange to the US, but Assange was being questioned in Sweden before he fled from there and on bail in the UK prior to 'fleeing' to the Ecuadorian embassy. It seems a very roundabout way for the Americans to get at him. Occams Razor Assange is fleeing justic…

With your fancy words, you're missing the central point: everybody should be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

By what process could his guilt possibly be provable if he refuses to leave the embassy?

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#33

Someone accused of rape should not be given refuge to wait it out. Its easy for armchair conspiracists to imagine this whole thing an elaborate ruse to extradite Assange to the US, but Assange was being questioned in Sweden before he fled from there and on bail in the UK prior to 'fleeing' to the Ecuadorian embassy. It seems a very roundabout way for the Americans to get at him. Occams Razor Assange is fleeing justic…

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/julian-assange-affidavit-states-rap... As I had recalled earlier there was some damning evidence, if true, supporting the case that it is a conspiracy. Supposedly the girls had denied rape allegations but later retracted or removed traces of the denials.

> there was some damning evidence, if true, supporting the case that it is a conspiracy

The evidence is an affidavit from Assange himself. Not many people would consider an affidavit from the accused "damming".

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#34
post #13

Someone accused of rape should not be given refuge to wait it out. Its easy for armchair conspiracists to imagine this whole thing an elaborate ruse to extradite Assange to the US, but Assange was being questioned in Sweden before he fled from there and on bail in the UK prior to 'fleeing' to the Ecuadorian embassy. It seems a very roundabout way for the Americans to get at him. Occams Razor Assange is fleeing justic…

Not guilty until proven? And the stay at the embassy is for political reasons – and like a prison sentence (in a civilized country where prison sentences are about the loss of freedom and not the loss of living as a human being).

> Not guilty until proven?

There was no assumption of guilt in the parents post. There's an open accusation and it's absolutely normal that people get arrested for rape accusations. Rape is a serious crime and needs to be prosecuted.

The stay at the embassy is self-inflicted. Nobody but Assange chose to violate the conditions of his bail. Assange still is master of his own destiny and could end this at any point. He also enjoys a lot of freedoms that actual prisoners often do not enjoy, among them using the internet. Equating his self-chosen recluse with a prison sentence is unfair to all actual prisoners.

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#35
Assange is a nutjob who grew up in Australia during the cold war as a teenage hacker thinking the world was going to end. His paranoia and sense of dread lead him to picking the biggest fight in the world possible.

Potentially people have died because of what he did, but also the public has an amazing resource for understanding the larger powers at will in the world around them.

If I have to get armchair about the rapes, everything I've seen it seems like he got high with a couple chicks and had some sex. Deviant I guess because there were multiple. I don't think there is media reports of this, but I'm sure there was some trip or some x involved. He very could be a date rapist. Very possible.

I don't think this claim has ever been made, but he could potentially have drugged and raped two women that were not awake to give consent. It's also possible that he violently forced women to have sex with him.

I want those women to have a reckoning with Assange in a Swedish court. By proxy if need be, to protect them from their assailant.

However, there is a big problem with moving him to Sweden because they are an American ally and we aren't exactly treating Chelsea Manning in a way that I think is appropriate for the gravity of what is happening.

Assange is a person looking for a war to the death because that's what he was brought up expecting. That may or may not be the game that we are playing, but it is the way he sees the world. He has provided a service that potentially could save lives and enable us to have a better shot at a more informed future.

Chelsea, Edward, and Assange are martyrs and I'm fairly sure they've accepted it. If they move to the wrong court they might be shot on a boat and dumped in the ocean and we'll not get to have that dialog.

It's fucking tragic if those women were victimized. If this crazy game of chess with these eccentric techie chists isn't allowed to play out verbosely, we will all suffer for it.

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#36
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Anyone can be accused of rape, accusations should not matter.

Accusations should be investigated by the justice system, not dismissed just because the person is famous. They should face those accusations by being interviewed by the persecutor, and if the prosecutor believes there is a case to answer, they should face those accusations in court.

The Swedish police have had the option to interview Assange in London for three years, all expenses paid. They have chosen instead to temporize and delay, and thereby leave the investigation without closure. Note that the Swedish police have conducted foreign interviews in the past, but for some reason seem intent on drawing out this particular process.

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#37
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With your fancy words, you're missing the central point: everybody should be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

By what process could his guilt possibly be provable if he refuses to leave the embassy?

In most court systems, the defendant is not required to say anything. So (in theory) he can just be tried in absentia. He can even have lawyers representing him.

At least to me (but I'm not a lawyer), the current system violates european human rights. Either he is charged with a crime, in which case the court case should have started years ago (and ended), or he is not officially charged with a crime, in which case he should be free to go where ever he wants until he is charged. The current situation is absurd.

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#38
post #16

Someone accused of rape should not be given refuge to wait it out. Its easy for armchair conspiracists to imagine this whole thing an elaborate ruse to extradite Assange to the US, but Assange was being questioned in Sweden before he fled from there and on bail in the UK prior to 'fleeing' to the Ecuadorian embassy. It seems a very roundabout way for the Americans to get at him. Occams Razor Assange is fleeing justic…

No. Anyone can be accused of rape, accusations should not matter.

There is a difference between an arrest warrant (häktning) and accusation (misstänkt).

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#39

Someone accused of rape should not be given refuge to wait it out. Its easy for armchair conspiracists to imagine this whole thing an elaborate ruse to extradite Assange to the US, but Assange was being questioned in Sweden before he fled from there and on bail in the UK prior to 'fleeing' to the Ecuadorian embassy. It seems a very roundabout way for the Americans to get at him. Occams Razor Assange is fleeing justic…

With your fancy words, you're missing the central point: everybody should be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

Leaving aside the contempt for your own professed ideal demonstrated by the implicit suggestion that the complainants are guilty of perjury, wouldn't it be nice if we had some sort of mechanism, oh, say, call it a court, we could use to assess against a legal standard of guilt?

Oh wait, there is. But Assange has chosen to (illegally) run away from a valid investigation.

Re: Swedish court upholds Assange arrest warrant

#40
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/julian-assange-affidavit-states-rap... As I had recalled earlier there was some damning evidence, if true, supporting the case that it is a conspiracy. Supposedly the girls had denied rape allegations but later retracted or removed traces of the denials.

> there was some damning evidence, if true, supporting the case that it is a conspiracy The evidence is an affidavit from Assange himself. Not many people would consider an affidavit from the accused "damming".

> Not many people would consider an affidavit from the accused "damming".

That's a kind way of saying "about as reliable as the idea Reiser was framed by the Russian mob."

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