Has Chomsky been blown out of the water? [pdf]
31–39 of 39 posts
Re: Has Chomsky been blown out of the water? [pdf]
#32This is like asking "Has Einstein been blown out of the water?" in the context of physics. The answer is that such a thing would be impossible, because even though his theories and models are imperfect (as all theories and models are), they were so influential that they fundamentally changed his field. Chomsky had a similar effect on linguistics, and even if much of his work ends up being rejected, his influence will…
At my university no one in the linguistics department actually subscribed to UG or any derivatives thereof but in the English department they did. I've observed sort of the same divide in countries. In English speaking counties UG seems to be the prevailing theory while it's much less so in non-English speaking countries.
Unfortunately people are extremely religious about their preferred theory of grammar, and it's hard to have a useful discussion about it when people are unable to remove themselves from the subject and discuss it objectively.
Re: Has Chomsky been blown out of the water? [pdf]
#33Looks like some very important people ordered Chomsky's discreditation campaign, because that guy had enough balls to reveal something about them to general public in his book "How the World Works".
Re: Has Chomsky been blown out of the water? [pdf]
#341) "[...] greater awareness of the diversity of human languages, and especially the discovery by Daniel Everett of a Brazilian indigenous language, Pirahã, that apparently has no subordinate clauses"
That's the one and only evidence the author shows for this point. No examples on how the language works or how it stands in contrast to Universal Grammar, and no other mention of any other language that might be contradicting UG as well (even though the author implies that there are other languages that stand in contradiction to UG). Later on though the author says "It is not even undisputed that Pirahã lacks subordinate clauses" so the one and only evidence is still a maybe.
2)"The second is advances in cognitive psychology. [...] Nowadays we know that the human mind has complex, powerful, abstract capabilities in many areas, not just language, and new possibilities are opening up for explaining language from general mechanisms of thinking and learning."
This is not an argument and no evidence has been shown for this point.
3)"The third factor is the increasing use of data-driven methods in computational linguistics [...] In a data-driven approach, structure arises because sentences obviously consist of parts that can be recognized before recognizing the whole. [...] This predicts that the grammar of uncommon words will be simple and regular, but common words will have more quirks because we have more examples from which to learn them. That is exactly what we observe in language, and it’s a source of great clutter in a grammar constructed on Chomskyan principles."
As far as I know, the fact that sentences have parts that can be individually recognized before recognizing the whole, is not contradicting UG at all. To the best of my knowledge, UG only says that there is a structure, not how the structure comes about. So the only point left is the fact that common words have more varied usage and are harder to pin down as a particular specific element of the structure. I don't see how that relates to UG quite frankly. Maybe someone can enlighten me on this.
I have no particular love for UG, I just know of it on a very general sense, but if I was a teacher and a student gave me this article as a report, I would've failed him just for the lack of evidence.
Re: Has Chomsky been blown out of the water? [pdf]
#35Today I learned about Betteridge's Law [0], which seems apt here. It states that when a news headline asks a question, the answer is always "no." When it applies to a paper, I'm disinclined to take the paper seriously... [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...
This gets posted on EVERY submission ending in a question mark. It was old 2 years ago. Now it's just plain trite, pointless, tiresome and distracting.
Re: Has Chomsky been blown out of the water? [pdf]
#36If you read a bit further (pages 2 and after) it's actually not all innuendo. In fact some of it is actually laudatory about his contributions. It's basically a very brief summary of Chomsky's ideas and the impact he had on linguistics as a profession. Namely using trees to model syntactical forms and his hypothesis on universal grammar. I don't know what it is about HN that makes people refuse to read past the first…
That's hardly unique to HN. Following Chomsky, I'd argue that it's actually a universal behavior, which merely finds (slight) variation in expression according to the medium at hand. It even has a Latin name - argumentum ad logicam - and it's closely related to cherry picking except that it's applied to parts of the argument instead of to data. In fact, I just did it to you when I picked on the inessential "about HN" part of your sentence (which reads fine without it), and if you find that annoying then perhaps you should consider that you also did it when you jumped into a response about innuendo without addressing the more substantive discussion that had already occurred.
Re: Has Chomsky been blown out of the water? [pdf]
#37If you want to prove a scientist wrong, present evidence to the contrary rather than personal innuendos and hypotheses / observations without proof.
This is a good criticism of a number of Chomsky's polemical papers.
Re: Has Chomsky been blown out of the water? [pdf]
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
This gets posted on EVERY submission ending in a question mark. It was old 2 years ago. Now it's just plain trite, pointless, tiresome and distracting.
I self-aggrandizingly call this tome's law: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9077549
Re: Has Chomsky been blown out of the water? [pdf]
#39This is like asking "Has Einstein been blown out of the water?" in the context of physics. The answer is that such a thing would be impossible, because even though his theories and models are imperfect (as all theories and models are), they were so influential that they fundamentally changed his field. Chomsky had a similar effect on linguistics, and even if much of his work ends up being rejected, his influence will…
Linguist here. It really isn't. There are plenty of competing and very compelling theories in e.g. big parts of Europe. Especially Functional Grammar and its different branches. The only relation they really have to UG is that they're not it. At my university no one in the linguistics department actually subscribed to UG or any derivatives thereof but in the English department they did. I've observed sort of the same…
While I know that part of the pedagogy was giving students a grounding in dominant strains of formalism (in North American circles anyway), at times I felt a bit cheated out of a broader perspective.
Of course in practice many of the competing frameworks are weakly equivalent in terms of their descriptive power and the differences come down more to things like biological plausibility, computational complexity, how strongly you interpret the claims of UG, whether you have any interest in building tractable computational implementations, and so on. Or how you feel about the proliferation of empty functional categories, which was what bothered me the most from an empirical point of view.