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Darpa Contract Awarded to Verify Blockchain-Based Integrity Monitoring System

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Re: Darpa Contract Awarded to Verify Blockchain-Based Integrity Monitoring System

#41

Post by ristoalas »

TD-Linux wrote: post #38
Gabrielfair wrote: post #3

They keep using the word 'block chain'. Is that the same idea as the bitcoin blockchain?

No. The point of the Bitcoin blockchain is to provide ordering of transactions without a centralized timestamping service. This is a centralized timestamping service.

(I work for Guardtime.) KSI verification is meant to be decentralised; that is, no single (centralised) entity should have the ability to, for example, create fake timestamps. You can deploy KSI in various ways, so there can be, for example, one entity who controls access to the blockchain (but for example they still cannot fake any evidence).

Re: Darpa Contract Awarded to Verify Blockchain-Based Integrity Monitoring System

#42

Post by dllthomas »

lutusp wrote: post #22

Quote: "Galois is a leader in formal verification, a technique that goes beyond testing and evaluation to provide mathematical assurances that a system works only as intended in all cases." Wait -- mathematical assurances that a system works only as intended in all cases ? That's not possible. It pretends that the Turing Halting problem[1] is soluble. Not that this claim is at all uncommon. I regularly see similar cl…

> that this problem cannot be solved in the general case.

They are not solving it for the general case. They are solving it for many specific cases. Presented with a system, there is no guarantee that this will be possible - there can't be, that's what the Halting Problem says. But there is also no guarantee that it will be impossible for the particular system under consideration - that is not what the Halting Problem says.

Re: Darpa Contract Awarded to Verify Blockchain-Based Integrity Monitoring System

#43

Post by digikata »

nxzero wrote: post #11
zmanian wrote: post #9

Guardtime is set of tooling around a FIPS 140 timestamping appliance. Systems on the network submit hashes of their logs to the time stamping. Assuming the appliance remains secure, you can go back in the event of compromise and prove that your logs are unaltered up to a certain point. It's amazing that they seem to have built a $50 -$100 million dollar business here.

>> "Assuming the appliance remains secure" Makes me wonder what mathematics would prove this, or if it's assumed to be out of scope, and if so, what else is out of scope too.

I was just reading the Wikipedia page on Linked timestamping yesterday. Though I don't know that this is what Galois & Guardtime are doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_timestamping

Re: Darpa Contract Awarded to Verify Blockchain-Based Integrity Monitoring System

#44

Post by hossbeast »

nxzero wrote: post #32
javast98 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Guardtime - this is our secure appliance that we built with a team of engineers coming out of the US Military Ant-Tamper community: http://bit.ly/2cgXiDu

Redirected link from bitly link above: https://media.voog.com/0000/0036/0235/files/Black_Lantern_da...

What's wrong with posting a bitly link?

Re: Darpa Contract Awarded to Verify Blockchain-Based Integrity Monitoring System

#45

Post by TD-Linux »

ristoalas wrote: post #41
TD-Linux wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The point of the Bitcoin blockchain is to provide ordering of transactions without a centralized timestamping service. This is a centralized timestamping service.

(I work for Guardtime.) KSI verification is meant to be decentralised; that is, no single (centralised) entity should have the ability to, for example, create fake timestamps. You can deploy KSI in various ways, so there can be, for example, one entity who controls access to the blockchain (but for example they still cannot fake any evidence).

Right, it appears you can have multiple physical tamper-protected boxes that agree with each other, which makes it federated, but not decentralized.

Re: Darpa Contract Awarded to Verify Blockchain-Based Integrity Monitoring System

#46

Post by stelfer »

ristoalas wrote: post #40
stelfer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the Guardtime product is a Merkle tree of timestamps. I'm also pretty sure whatever protocol they use to maintain it would _not_ be immediately recognized as a "blockchain" protocol. Of course the protocol can be modeled and checked. The question is why does anyone think that this activity can apply to "blockchains" in general. But, welcome to the world of industrial research funding.

(I work for Guardtime; I’m happy to answer any questions.) Some online resources might not make it very clear, but the KSI blockchain is indeed a blockchain; for example, new blocks are released periodically (1 block per second on average), and the new blocks contain hashes of the previous blocks, among other things. Then, blocks get distributed around so that users can verify their data against these blocks, etc.

Most people associate "blockchains" with a protocol by which the "blocks" are inserted. Usually these things revolve around proof-of-work, proof-of-stake, proof-of-space, fairness criteria, etc. I think everyone gets that the Guardtime product is hashtree. From a formal verification perspective, the critical behavior is probably in the protocol, and most likely not the implementation of the datastructure or database.

Re: Darpa Contract Awarded to Verify Blockchain-Based Integrity Monitoring System

#47

Post by alfiedotwtf »

hossbeast wrote: post #44
nxzero wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Redirected link from bitly link above: https://media.voog.com/0000/0036/0235/files/Black_Lantern_da...

What's wrong with posting a bitly link?

Transparency

Re: Darpa Contract Awarded to Verify Blockchain-Based Integrity Monitoring System

#48

Post by dmix »

tel wrote: post #14

It's cool that Galois got this contract. They're a very nice Haskell shop out of Seattle responsible for projects like Copilot and Cryptol.

Saving the next person the time. Links to both:

Copilot https://galois.com/project/copilot/

Cryptol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptol

Re: Darpa Contract Awarded to Verify Blockchain-Based Integrity Monitoring System

#49

Post by Jasper_ »

ristoalas wrote: post #40
stelfer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the Guardtime product is a Merkle tree of timestamps. I'm also pretty sure whatever protocol they use to maintain it would _not_ be immediately recognized as a "blockchain" protocol. Of course the protocol can be modeled and checked. The question is why does anyone think that this activity can apply to "blockchains" in general. But, welcome to the world of industrial research funding.

(I work for Guardtime; I’m happy to answer any questions.) Some online resources might not make it very clear, but the KSI blockchain is indeed a blockchain; for example, new blocks are released periodically (1 block per second on average), and the new blocks contain hashes of the previous blocks, among other things. Then, blocks get distributed around so that users can verify their data against these blocks, etc.

> 1 block per second on average

What stops a double-spend or other attacks like that in a 1-second timeframe? The 10 minute threshold of Bitcoin was chosen under belief that the network would be settled after roughly 10 minutes.

Re: Darpa Contract Awarded to Verify Blockchain-Based Integrity Monitoring System

#50

Post by thepredestrian »

losteverything wrote: post #19
nxzero wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blockchain is critical current & future technology, it's future is independent of Bitcoin's future. Bitcoin is the first implementation of a blockchain system, but it's a technology, not Bitcoin. All major log systems will be based on it; governments, banks, military, voting systems, etc. Highly suggest reading the Wikipedia entry on Blockchain to learn more and think about how you might use it too: https://en.m.…

I'm a blockchain blockhead. Any more suggested reading? Really basic like a) how will my debit card debit my money buying DD coffee? If I create another book can I "get blockchain" (so to speak) to protect my work? Thus, I will need to make the right choice to be covered under a blockchain or not? At 50000 ft I get the significance I think. I just cant even come close to explaining it.

Think of a blockchain like linked lists. The linked lists exist on the network and is peer to peer, so there is no central server that stores the data.

Whenever a new transaction is made, in the case of Bitcoin, a new node is created and joined to the linked list.

The bitcoin blockchain is limited in the sense that you can only buy / sell bitcoin. Ethereum is another up and coming blockchain that allows you to write smart contracts (contracts that enforce themselves). There is a whole community of developers working on developing decentralized applications for Ethereum blockchain now.

Come join us over at /r/ethereum

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