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The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the 'Rats of NIMH'

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Re: The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the 'Rats of NIMH'

#11

Post by vanderZwan »

throwanem wrote: post #3

> But the public held on hard to his earlier work—as Ramsden and Adams put it, "everyone want[ed] to hear the diagnosis, no one want[ed] to hear the cure." Was there a "cure"? The article speaks of the fashion in which his later efforts attempted to alleviate the catastrophic social problems he'd observed in his earlier utopian designs. It is craftily silent on the subject of those efforts' results.

Not sure if this is a cure, but it's an interesting story for comparison because it also involves some form of a mouse-utopia:

http://www.brucekalexander.com/articles-speeches/rat-park/14...

http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/

Re: The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the 'Rats of NIMH'

#12

Post by scotchmi_st »

throwanem wrote: post #3

> But the public held on hard to his earlier work—as Ramsden and Adams put it, "everyone want[ed] to hear the diagnosis, no one want[ed] to hear the cure." Was there a "cure"? The article speaks of the fashion in which his later efforts attempted to alleviate the catastrophic social problems he'd observed in his earlier utopian designs. It is craftily silent on the subject of those efforts' results.

The article seems to me to hint that exploring inner space is the key here. Perhaps the internet, computer games and other ways of interacting socially without actually coming into contact with each other are a way for us to expand the amount of real estate we have to use and stave off the effects of overcrowding.

Re: The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the 'Rats of NIMH'

#13

Post by cmiller1 »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #8

was just thinking about how much I despise the movie based on this book. Possibly the best piece of children’s literature that is explicitly about evolution, neuroscience and society, and they turn it into a woo-woo adventure about a MAGIC AMULET ugh. Read the book. Buy your kids the book. Terrific book.

I agree that the book is much better than the movie, but I don't think the movie was terrible. I'd argue the movie was "dumbed down" to reach a wider range of ages. I liked the movie when I was 5, I liked the book when I was 11.

Re: The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the 'Rats of NIMH'

#14

Post by taeric »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #8

was just thinking about how much I despise the movie based on this book. Possibly the best piece of children’s literature that is explicitly about evolution, neuroscience and society, and they turn it into a woo-woo adventure about a MAGIC AMULET ugh. Read the book. Buy your kids the book. Terrific book.

I have the audio book, but haven't listened to it yet. This just bumped it up to the top of my queue.

I felt the same way with Never Ending Story. And, as a kid, I loved that movie. Book was so much more, though.

Howl's Moving Castle was one where I actually had a hard time liking more than one or two scenes of the movie, because of how much I liked the book.

Re: The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the 'Rats of NIMH'

#15

Post by throwaway2016b »

This paints a dark picture, not only for urban life, but for basic income. What wondrous creativity will be unlocked when we no longer need to work to survive? A negative amount, if you judge by the NEETs of today. Give a man food, shelter, and internet, and he'll kill himself for you.

Re: The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the 'Rats of NIMH'

#16

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

taeric wrote: post #14
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #8

was just thinking about how much I despise the movie based on this book. Possibly the best piece of children’s literature that is explicitly about evolution, neuroscience and society, and they turn it into a woo-woo adventure about a MAGIC AMULET ugh. Read the book. Buy your kids the book. Terrific book.

I have the audio book, but haven't listened to it yet. This just bumped it up to the top of my queue. I felt the same way with Never Ending Story. And, as a kid, I loved that movie. Book was so much more, though. Howl's Moving Castle was one where I actually had a hard time liking more than one or two scenes of the movie, because of how much I liked the book.

Oddly, DWJ really liked the Howl's Moving Castle film, apparently.

As a Miyazaki/Ghibli fan, I got into the film more than the book.

I still need to read The Never Ending Story. But yeah, the movie of Rats of NIMH was super disappointing to me.

Re: The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the 'Rats of NIMH'

#17

Post by sctb »

Eerie wrote: post #6

This just in: living things struggle to survive in niches they never evolved to fill. What a shock! Who coulda thought?!? News at eleven!!!111eleven

Please comment civilly and substantively on HN or not at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the 'Rats of NIMH'

#18

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #8

was just thinking about how much I despise the movie based on this book. Possibly the best piece of children’s literature that is explicitly about evolution, neuroscience and society, and they turn it into a woo-woo adventure about a MAGIC AMULET ugh. Read the book. Buy your kids the book. Terrific book.

Yep. I loved this book when I was a kid.

Re: The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the 'Rats of NIMH'

#19

Post by jds375 »

Mendenhall wrote: post #9
AstralStorm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rats and mice don't really do much except eating, breeding, hunting and socialising.

Interesting point but In its natural environment they do so much more. Search for the food, avoid weather, avoid predators etc. I think perhaps when those stresses are taken away it goes counter to their instincts and "wiring" causing problems.

I wonder what that could mean for us as humans. Is some degree of "strife" necessary in society for people to be happier?

Perhaps our work to eliminate many of the more primal issues that affect us (the need to hunt, survive in the wild, etc) are only making us worse off?

It would be interesting to hear more about this, as well as what the potential "cures" may be, as alluded to at the end of the article.

Re: The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the 'Rats of NIMH'

#20

Post by dv_dt »

Mendenhall wrote: post #9
AstralStorm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rats and mice don't really do much except eating, breeding, hunting and socialising.

Interesting point but In its natural environment they do so much more. Search for the food, avoid weather, avoid predators etc. I think perhaps when those stresses are taken away it goes counter to their instincts and "wiring" causing problems.

Makes me think of theories of allergies and runaway immune responses attacking the body because there hasn't been enough exposure to 'stuff to attack'.
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