Why I Majored in Philosophy Despite Everyone Telling Me Not To (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I Majored in Philosophy Despite Everyone Telling Me Not To (2013)

#161

Post by GarrisonPrime » Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 3:54 PM UTC

objectiveariel wrote: post #75

I love this bit: "I prefer to spend my college years searching, exploring, and wondering, as opposed to training to become an "asset" in the file cabinet of a "human resource" department. Rock on fellow baristas, rock on." Translation: "I'll come out of university with no transferrable skills whatsoever. Dreadfully unintellectual dead-end jobs are where I'll be able to keep pursuing my love of knowledge". Dude. The a…

I don't think he's boasting about being poorly prepared for the job market. I think he's boasting about being much better prepared for life in general.

Re: Why I Majored in Philosophy Despite Everyone Telling Me Not To (2013)

#162

Post by GarrisonPrime » Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 3:56 PM UTC

cbgb wrote: post #152

pdabbadabba wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll come out of university with no transferrable skills whatsoever I think this reflects a common misunderstanding about either philosophy or what constitutes a "transferable skill." Philosophy teaches writing (quite intensively, in a good program) and abstract analytical skills. I have a philosophy degree and not only have I found it valuable, prospective employers have too. This especially true in my field (law)…

Philosophy/(Pure) Math double major here. I would argue that my Math degree made me a "better" writer than my Philosophy degree did. Writing quality in philosophy is generally much poorer than other disciplines; you pretty much have to use passive voice everywhere, which is the first thing your college writing lab will tell you not to do. On the other hand, in my Math classes, I had to turn in 5-10 pages of proofs ev…

This proved to be the case for myself as well, when going through medical school and practice. I discovered I have a pretty good knack for breaking things down to their core principles and presenting them in a succinct, logical manner. I gained a reputation as the guy who could help explain complex medical issues to patients clearly and simply. I credit my undergrad years as a math major with this wonderfully useful skill.

Re: Why I Majored in Philosophy Despite Everyone Telling Me Not To (2013)

#163

Post by Vraxx » Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 3:58 PM UTC

organsnyder wrote: post #132

irishcoffee wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"See the sad thing about a guy like you, is in about 50 years you’re gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you’re gonna come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life. One, don't do that. And two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a fuckin’ education you coulda' got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the Public Library."

If you approach college as a consumer of the information fed by professors and books, the Public Library approach is probably a great value proposition (though I'd question whether that $1.50 provided any value at all... :-) ). However, a good education is much more than this. It includes the opportunity to engage in back-and-forth discussions with professors and classmates, building social and professional networks…

I agree with you in theory about the utility of higher education, but it falls apart when you start to consider (at least in the US) the practical system in which it exists. People are taking on debt in order to go to college and the fact of the matter is that it's a terrible financial decision if you aren't expecting some vocational training that will help pay that debt back faster than never taking it at all. I agree that life shouldn't be all about money, but most people can't afford to expend thousands of dollars and 4 years of time and work for an enriching experience.

The big distinction that ends up causing all these arguments is that when people say it's a bad decision, they mean it's a bad financial decision when you go to college and take on debt to get a degree that won't lead to a well paying job. Of course everything is about context, so it might not be a bad life choice, but the debt certainly should not be ignored in evaluating that decision.

Re: Why I Majored in Philosophy Despite Everyone Telling Me Not To (2013)

#164

Post by uxp100 » Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 4:01 PM UTC

I like this. It's short, and covers how influential philosophy has been. And I have no problem with snark from someone who's interest has become the butt of cheap jokes.

However, when it comes to the greater conversation, I'm less generous. I think an aspect of the supposed STEM vs Humanities divide is class, which seems like a bit of a stretch now that I write it down.

I chose the most fascinating, lucrative, TRADE I could. And damn, it pays well. And now people who had the freedom to go to an expensive University and 'explore themselves' can condescend to me while also feeling persecuted by me. And my coworkers condescend back, but I remain interested in the humanities, but it just was not a choice to go to college for the fun of it.

I was the first in my family to go to college, and from the start it was understood that this was my ticket to the upper middle class, where your parents aren't in tears figuring out how to pay their bills. (Although we did OK, Dad found another job, etc. Never actually went broke. My mom just might be the type to cry when frustrated.)

When people had the freedom to go to college to explore themselves and the humanities, and you weren't expected to justify your degree, mostly rich people went to college. As a small minded reformist Bourgeoisie, I'm OK with this. Now is better than then. Lets make college even better in the future for everyone, not just my kids, who will be free to explore themselves with post-colonial vaporwave music production.

PS My father was in a real trade, I don't actually think of Software Engineering as a trade, but I do think there is a class thing here.

Re: Why I Majored in Philosophy Despite Everyone Telling Me Not To (2013)

#165

Post by _delirium » Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 4:15 PM UTC

cbgb wrote: post #152

pdabbadabba wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll come out of university with no transferrable skills whatsoever I think this reflects a common misunderstanding about either philosophy or what constitutes a "transferable skill." Philosophy teaches writing (quite intensively, in a good program) and abstract analytical skills. I have a philosophy degree and not only have I found it valuable, prospective employers have too. This especially true in my field (law)…

Philosophy/(Pure) Math double major here. I would argue that my Math degree made me a "better" writer than my Philosophy degree did. Writing quality in philosophy is generally much poorer than other disciplines; you pretty much have to use passive voice everywhere, which is the first thing your college writing lab will tell you not to do. On the other hand, in my Math classes, I had to turn in 5-10 pages of proofs ev…

Where in philosophy is using passive voice common? At least in Anglo-American analytic philosophy, first-person active voice has been the norm for decades, since the days when in other fields it was seen as too informal to start a sentence with "I". Even today, scientists love to write things like "three types of experiments were performed to test this hypothesis". While a philosophy paper is more likely to contain active-voice, first-person sentences like "I present an internal problem for David Lewis's genuine modal realism" [1].

As a computer science major with a philosophy minor, I personally found my philosophy minor much more useful in learning how to write clearly than my CS major was.

[1] Arbitrarily chosen example from a recent abstract http://mind.oxfordjournals.org/content/125/499/627.abstract

Re: Why I Majored in Philosophy Despite Everyone Telling Me Not To (2013)

#166

Post by sremani » Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 4:15 PM UTC

objectiveariel wrote: post #75

I love this bit: "I prefer to spend my college years searching, exploring, and wondering, as opposed to training to become an "asset" in the file cabinet of a "human resource" department. Rock on fellow baristas, rock on." Translation: "I'll come out of university with no transferrable skills whatsoever. Dreadfully unintellectual dead-end jobs are where I'll be able to keep pursuing my love of knowledge". Dude. The a…

I think PG is Phil major too.

http://www.paulgraham.com/philosophy.html

Re: Why I Majored in Philosophy Despite Everyone Telling Me Not To (2013)

#167

Post by tloble » Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 4:16 PM UTC

objectiveariel wrote: post #75

I love this bit: "I prefer to spend my college years searching, exploring, and wondering, as opposed to training to become an "asset" in the file cabinet of a "human resource" department. Rock on fellow baristas, rock on." Translation: "I'll come out of university with no transferrable skills whatsoever. Dreadfully unintellectual dead-end jobs are where I'll be able to keep pursuing my love of knowledge". Dude. The a…

I studied philosophy and history, I worked as a developer since I graduated. I spent some time learning to program on my own though.

Re: Why I Majored in Philosophy Despite Everyone Telling Me Not To (2013)

#168

Post by FeteCommuniste » Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 4:23 PM UTC

andkon wrote: post #53

saintzozo wrote: post #8

I'm going to reproduce a reddit post I made recently that I think is relevant: Analytic philosophy has made my mind a razor. It forged in me the confidence and mental discipline to learn anything, and I'm now dominating the tech scene despite having little in the way of formal coursework. I was lucky to choose one of the few disciplines that can be fruitfully studied at Brown. As any student of a rigorous discipline,…

Is this satire? This is pretty much the perfect expression of all the most insufferable moments and people I knew during my own analytic philosophy education. It's even wrapped up in the fondest delusion of philosophy undergrads: that you, through the sheer strength of your intellect, rose above your surroundings. Your shit ain't that great, man. If anyone goes through four years of philosophy and is talking about th…

From his website (http://soixante-neuf.homosexual.horse/veritas/privacy.html):

"Consider that my penis is nine inches long with a girth I am unwilling to divulge even here — a characteristic with strongly positive social consequences.

I have to have my pants specifically tailored to obscure the size of my genitals in public, lest women follow me home, send me unnecessary gifts, and assemble with cameras outside of social venues in which I am spotted."

Re: Why I Majored in Philosophy Despite Everyone Telling Me Not To (2013)

#169

Post by 6stringmerc » Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 4:26 PM UTC

Anecdote: The smartest, intellectual, brilliant software developer / computer programmer I've ever come across taught Logic II as an adjunct. He had his PhD in Philosophy and could drown us with Second Order of Calculus so fast we didn't know how it happened. He was so gracious it was almost comical. He could look at the board, look at the class, and sort of attempt to explain but it was clear he could see things ways we couldn't. I don't wish to go into much detail but I will state he - single handed (which I believe) - built an entire Regional Real Estate software suite from scratch over the years and was constantly upgrading it to keep with the times. No maintenance mode junk. He was the real deal.

Re: Why I Majored in Philosophy Despite Everyone Telling Me Not To (2013)

#170

Post by pdabbadabba » Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 4:28 PM UTC

cbgb wrote: post #152

pdabbadabba wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll come out of university with no transferrable skills whatsoever I think this reflects a common misunderstanding about either philosophy or what constitutes a "transferable skill." Philosophy teaches writing (quite intensively, in a good program) and abstract analytical skills. I have a philosophy degree and not only have I found it valuable, prospective employers have too. This especially true in my field (law)…

Philosophy/(Pure) Math double major here. I would argue that my Math degree made me a "better" writer than my Philosophy degree did. Writing quality in philosophy is generally much poorer than other disciplines; you pretty much have to use passive voice everywhere, which is the first thing your college writing lab will tell you not to do. On the other hand, in my Math classes, I had to turn in 5-10 pages of proofs ev…

Yes. My mileage definitely varied. There's no doubt that there is bad philosophical writing out there, but I've never met anyone (until today!) who thinks that philosophical writing requires or encourages the passive voice. It may be that the passive voice is harder to avoid in Philosophy than in other disciplines, but avoiding it is a useful exercise. That's how you improve!

And at any rate, I don't believe I ever claimed that a Philosophy degree was the best way to develop your writing.