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Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

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Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#91

Post by tanqueray »

dalerus wrote: post #83
shepardrtc wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a common thing that women experience from men that are trying to passively hit on them. Except most of the time its not from coworkers, so when it does happen in the workplace, its blatantly obvious what the underlying meaning is.

Wow, I had no idea people would interpret this as sexual harassment. I say this to both men and women on my teams that look like they are having a rough day. I'll remove that from things I say. Edit: I don't just say "Smile", usually there is more context to the conversation and usually ends with me trying to see if I can help fix the problem(if it's work related).

"I'll remove that from things I say".

If there is no bad intent, why should you? The answer is that a snowflake could get you fired but the rhetorical question stands.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#92

Post by roywiggins »

flukus wrote: post #75
1024core wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of what I read in TFA I really understand to be a hostile work environment, as the term is defined. Your colleagues joke that someone is coming to rape you, and you're supposed to laugh? I'm not a woman, but I can imagine a woman being really hurt by such a joke. Given the fact that 1 out of 6 women in this country are victims of sexual assault[1], I think it's a joke in poor taste, and does not belong in a wo…

> I'm not a woman, but I can imagine a woman being really hurt by such a joke. So we have to treat women differently than men? Sounds a bit sexist.

Wake me up when men are raped at the same rate as women and then we can talk about treating everyone the same.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#93

Post by flukus »

nharada wrote: post #89
flukus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's offensive and inexcusable, regardless of gender or intent. How? It's a common everyday saying.

It's no longer a common everyday saying because it's become synonymous with the sinister sexist undertones that it implies. It's like asking someone to "Netflix and Chill" today vs 3 years ago. At some point it may not have only meant one thing but those days have passed.

> It's no longer a common everyday saying because it's become synonymous with the sinister sexist undertones that it implies.

This is quite literally the first I've ever heard this. Is there an official list of what we can and can't say anywhere?

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#94

Post by tanqueray »

eor wrote: post #65
mthoms wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to diminish any of the other claims but I found this one to be a bit of an eye roller - Describing another incident, she wrote, "I was walking back to my cube from the break room and passed a group of managers exiting a meeting. The Area Manager told me to smile as I walked past." "While this is a small thing, it was notable as this is one of the most commonly reported forms of subtle sexism." No matter how hard…

Would you ever say that to a male colleague? Would anyone?

People have said that, or things along that line to me. I've said it to others.

"Would you ever say that to a male colleague? Would anyone?"

Out of context I'd imagine your question was about something that is actually serious or significant. Unbelievable.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#95

Post by flukus »

roywiggins wrote: post #92
flukus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not a woman, but I can imagine a woman being really hurt by such a joke. So we have to treat women differently than men? Sounds a bit sexist.

Wake me up when men are raped at the same rate as women and then we can talk about treating everyone the same.

So sexism is okay until men and women are raped in equal amounts?

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#96

Post by applethrow2 »

I'm risking a lot here...

Apple employee here:

I only want to provide context. None of us want a toxic environment. We, at Apple, pride ourselves on the fact that we are accepting of all backgrounds, nationalities, genders, religions. I, personally, have struggled with ensuring a diverse set of folks on my team or all backgrounds. We love the fact that we're helping to lead the industry with regard to diversity. And "Danielle's" case is unfortunate.

Danielle is of course an alias to protect the original identity. And I sincerely thank Mic for doing so. In an internal chat, someone made a reference to the "Hide Your Kids Hide Your Wife" meme about something technical. But this wasn't the intention of the sender. Danielle, a gay transgender male, explained that this was an inappropriate reference, the offender apologized immediately and said that this comment was not to make fun of rape.

Danielle in this case had a unique set of circumstances that made her especially sensitive to this kind of comment. And we should all be careful about what we say. And I completely agree with her that this kind of content has no place at Apple.

This thread was meant to be forwarded to Tim Cook, but was accidentally sent to a large internal group. This is how it was leaked.

I wish Mic would release the full emails with names redacted so that you all would see what was actually said.

The lesson here is: think about what you're saying. Sexual assault destroys humans.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#97

Post by fulafel »

guessmyname wrote: post #24

Why are most of these articles about harassment in the office associated with American companies? Are women from other countries afraid to speak about this? Or are American women just overreacting? In this specific case I understand that insinuating a rape scenario — which by the way is not against women but "everybody" — in a work environment is bad, but without knowing what other toxic comments or behavior happened…

From an european POV I'd guess it has to do with fire-at-will and litigation-happy culture combined with scant labor protections for white-collar positions & low union participation. Maybe people are reluctant to raise issues until it's blatant enough that they can win a court case if they are shrugged off and fired by the employer?

In many north european countries you could take these up as a workplace bullying issue and possibly escalate to your municipal workplace safety ombudsman and/or union rep. But in most cases you wouldn't have to, your grievances would be taken seriously internally because there's the threat of escalation that won't necessarily end with the victim leaving the company.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#98

Post by tanqueray »

nharada wrote: post #89
flukus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's offensive and inexcusable, regardless of gender or intent. How? It's a common everyday saying.

It's no longer a common everyday saying because it's become synonymous with the sinister sexist undertones that it implies. It's like asking someone to "Netflix and Chill" today vs 3 years ago. At some point it may not have only meant one thing but those days have passed.

Says who? You and a few others? Lots of people disagree so maybe you are in a tough shit scenario here.

Unless you actually have got someone fired for an innocuous comment. Then it's tough shit for them, I suppose.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#99

Post by tanqueray »

anon54321 wrote: post #63

Absolute BS. She sent an email to the entire company about this "incident", which I'll include here (names redacted). > 8:53:41 AM Person1: so am I the only one who thinks of the Bed Intruder auto-tune song everytime Person2 warns us of undisclosed persons in the building? > 8:54:47 AM Person3: hide yo wife? > 8:54:57 AM Person1: and yo kids > 8:56:02 AM Person3: well, you're not any more > 8:56:13 AM Person1: #winni…

Person 4's fascist solipsism is astounding. She has transferred the "toxicity" and "unacceptability"in her own mind onto the whole team.

A song was referred to but there was no actual mention of sexual assault. The song is not "completely unacceptable" as it is obviously commonly known and legally sold. It is therefore acceptable in the workplace, referred to as it actually was.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#100

Post by Blackthorn »

flukus wrote: post #93
nharada wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's no longer a common everyday saying because it's become synonymous with the sinister sexist undertones that it implies. It's like asking someone to "Netflix and Chill" today vs 3 years ago. At some point it may not have only meant one thing but those days have passed.

> It's no longer a common everyday saying because it's become synonymous with the sinister sexist undertones that it implies. This is quite literally the first I've ever heard this. Is there an official list of what we can and can't say anywhere?

> This is quite literally the first I've ever heard this.

Then it's good that you heard about it now, so you don't do it to anyone in the future!

Here's some references to better understand why this is a bad thing:

* http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erika-hardison/its-important-f...

* http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/04/09/47343350...

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